NBA playoffs
#21
RETMAN Wrote:I agree context is important which is why I made the comparison in eras. Jordan's teams before Scottie were terrible which is why they never had success in the playoffs. Labron's first run with the Cavs when he made the finals never had the type of teams Jordan had to face in his era.
Yeah, but on the other hand LeBron himself had much weaker teams than Jordan (even before Pippen) so it evens out. You might face easier competition, but if you're dragging more dead weight, you might end up being undone by your friends, rather than your enemies. Jordan's players were just mediocre, but LeBron's were just bad and would have been bench players on other teams.

Now to be clear, I still think Jordan is ahead of LeBron right now and I hope to baby Jesus that he bolts for Houston this offseason!!!
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#22
Labron never had a low post option because he likes to drive to get most of his points and assists. A big man clogging the lane would restrict Labron from being a primary scorer.

All of Bosh's numbers were smaller after he came to Miami. He was a much better rebounder and shot blocker in Toronto because he played closer to the basket which he did not in Miami. He was a big man in Toronto but was reduced to a wing in Miami and played like one.
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#23
vesuvius Wrote:
RETMAN Wrote:I agree context is important which is why I made the comparison in eras. Jordan's teams before Scottie were terrible which is why they never had success in the playoffs. Labron's first run with the Cavs when he made the finals never had the type of teams Jordan had to face in his era.
Yeah, but on the other hand LeBron himself had much weaker teams than Jordan (even before Pippen) so it evens out. You might face easier competition, but if you're dragging more dead weight, you might end up being undone by your friends, rather than your enemies. Jordan's players were just mediocre, but LeBron's were just bad and would have been bench players on other teams.

Now to be clear, I still think Jordan is ahead of LeBron right now and I hope to baby Jesus that he bolts for Houston this offseason!!!

Totally disagree in that point brotha! Michael made the playoffs as an 8th seed with a 30 and 52 record and was swept by the Celtics (one of the 3 greatest teams in NBA history IMO) in three games in 85-86. The same series in which Bird proclaimed him "Jesus in sneakers" because of his 63 point game at the Garden. LaBron never played on a team with less talent then that squad. That maybe the single worst team to ever make the playoffs.
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#24
RETMAN Wrote:Labron never had a low post option because he likes to drive to get most of his points and assists. A big man clogging the lane would restrict Labron from being a primary scorer.

All of Bosh's numbers were smaller after he came to Miami. He was a much better rebounder and shot blocker in Toronto because he played closer to the basket which he did not in Miami. He was a big man in Toronto but was reduced to a wing in Miami and played like one.
Again, not a good comparison, because A. Bosh was never a good offensive rebounder, almost all of them came on the defensive.

B. The clogging thing would only apply to getting offensive rebounds, not defensive ones.

You say that it wouldn't work because LeBron liked to drive to the basket, but while he was in Miami he became more of a post-move guy, like Jordan did in his second run with the Bulls and it didn't stop Rodman from leading the league in rebounds.

You mention that Bosh was a better shotblocker in Toronto. This is false. he averaged 1 block during his time with LeBron and 1.4 was the absolute highest he ever got for a season. Also, being an inside presence on the defensive is about a lot more than blocking, it's about overall defense, the rim, guarding the paint, etcetera.
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#25
RETMAN Wrote:
vesuvius Wrote:
RETMAN Wrote:I agree context is important which is why I made the comparison in eras. Jordan's teams before Scottie were terrible which is why they never had success in the playoffs. Labron's first run with the Cavs when he made the finals never had the type of teams Jordan had to face in his era.
Yeah, but on the other hand LeBron himself had much weaker teams than Jordan (even before Pippen) so it evens out. You might face easier competition, but if you're dragging more dead weight, you might end up being undone by your friends, rather than your enemies. Jordan's players were just mediocre, but LeBron's were just bad and would have been bench players on other teams.

Now to be clear, I still think Jordan is ahead of LeBron right now and I hope to baby Jesus that he bolts for Houston this offseason!!!

Totally disagree in that point brotha! Michael made the playoffs as an 8th seed with a 30 and 52 record and was swept by the Celtics (one of the 3 greatest teams in NBA history IMO) in three games in 85-86. The same series in which Bird proclaimed him "Jesus in sneakers" because of his 63 point game at the Garden. LaBron never played on a team with less talent then that squad. That maybe the single worst team to ever make the playoffs.
Yeah, we're not gonna get anywhere with that. Lets just move on.
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#26
I'm starting to wonder if you know basketball? Low post option on offense is a dude that can score with his back to the basket; Bosh did that in Toronto. He was a better shot blocker and rebounder in Toronto just check his stats. I know I did before making my posts.
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#27
RETMAN Wrote:I'm starting to wonder if you know basketball? Low post option on offense is a dude that can score with his back to the basket; Bosh did that in Toronto. He was a better shot blocker and rebounder in Toronto just check his stats. I know I did before making my posts.
I wasn't talking about a low post option on offense, I was talking about a low post guy on defense. A big man who guards the low post. Like I mentioned before I think Bosh was not needed for his offense, he was needed for his defense.

As for the block stats, here they are.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... hch01.html</a><!-- m -->

Bosh's average for Toronto, 1.2.

Bosh's average for Miami with LeBron. 1.0 on the nose.
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#28
You made my point. Thanks so very much brotha!
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#29
RETMAN Wrote:You made my point. Thanks so very much brotha!
No, actually those stats show that he was a lousy shot-blocker then and was a lousy shot-blocker in Miami, in addition to an overall lousy defender. So, the LeBron super team thing looks a lot more dicey.
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#30
RETMAN Wrote:
vesuvius Wrote:
RETMAN Wrote:I agree context is important which is why I made the comparison in eras. Jordan's teams before Scottie were terrible which is why they never had success in the playoffs. Labron's first run with the Cavs when he made the finals never had the type of teams Jordan had to face in his era.
Yeah, but on the other hand LeBron himself had much weaker teams than Jordan (even before Pippen) so it evens out. You might face easier competition, but if you're dragging more dead weight, you might end up being undone by your friends, rather than your enemies. Jordan's players were just mediocre, but LeBron's were just bad and would have been bench players on other teams.

Now to be clear, I still think Jordan is ahead of LeBron right now and I hope to baby Jesus that he bolts for Houston this offseason!!!

Totally disagree in that point brotha! Michael made the playoffs as an 8th seed with a 30 and 52 record and was swept by the Celtics (one of the 3 greatest teams in NBA history IMO) in three games in 85-86. The same series in which Bird proclaimed him "Jesus in sneakers" because of his 63 point game at the Garden. LaBron never played on a team with less talent then that squad. That maybe the single worst team to ever make the playoffs.

Wasn't the league smaller then so more bad teams could make the playoffs. Heck the East had several sub 500 teams make playoffs last 10 years.
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