Life Hacks
(07-31-2018, 06:12 PM)Shotgun Styles Wrote: Well, now you're appealing to nature but ingnoring modern science.

There were no weights to lift in the primordial age. But we know now that lifting them can produce tremendous results far beyond what natural working motions could manifest. The same is true with calorie distribution. You eat 6 meals because it keeps your metabolism working all day. Your body may not have evolved for this purpose, but the process works none the less.

Bodybuilders have been using the 6-8 meal plan for decades with tremendous success. These men do this for a living, and do it well, so I tend to put great stock in what they say. I've done both. Eating more meals is better for strength and muscle building, fasting is better for losing fat.

But both work.

You have a point. If you're an elite athlete that trains 2-3 times a day or a body builder, etc then yeah, 6-8 meals a day can have good results. You also have to keep in mind eating that much and staying that big does put a strain on your body, though (those guys are also on a ton of 'supplements' as well, a lot of which shorten their lifespan). I don't think most are cut out for that, probably around 3% of the population are in that boat. I listened to a podcast not long ago with like an 8x Mr. Olympian and let me tell you, what they are doing is anything but natural or healthy, so I don't recommend it outside of it being your profession. Live and let live, however. If a tiny fraction of the population want to destroy their bodies and shorten their lifespan for short term 'gains' then so be it. You should also listen to what arguably the GOAT MMA fighter Georges St. Pierre has to say on eating a lot to maintain size (it's not healthy for everyone, even if you are an elite athlete, go figure).

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying lifting isn't good. It's great exercise, I just wouldn't put body builders as the gold standard for healthiness in that regard (those 'supplements,' though). Interestingly that Mr. Olympian I'm talking about only put his body through that for competition purposes and immediately stopped doing all that after his career was over (a lot of them shrink much smaller afterwards because it truly isn't sustainable or healthy for long term longevity).
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Guys die because they abuse gear. Not because they take supplements. Every bodybuilder you can name that has died early from some kind of health event has been a hardcore juicer.

Athletes, models, actors, and personal trainers all swear by the 6-8 meal plan. But that plan ONLY works with consistent exercise. If your whole thing is that you want to lose weight  without exercise, then yes, fasting will do that. But it's not NEARLY as healthy as working out and eating more.

If you work out 3-6 days per week, and eat 5-8 CLEAN meals per day, you will be a country mile more healthy than the person that just fasts. You'll have more functional strength, stamina, and elevated testosterone levels. You'll be able to keep the fat off more easily as well.

Fasting is a good short term solution. And has real benefits. But for long term health, nothing beats a clean diet and regular exercise.
White Girl Connoisseur
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^ I wasn't implying supplements were bad, I was implying the 'supplements' they were taking were steroids in addition to normal supplements.

Hmm, I can get on board with athletes and personal trainers eating 6 meals a day, but I don't know about actors and models, at least not all. And it depends on the role or type of model I would guess as well. Christian Bale when he was playing Batman was probably eating 6 meals a day, but when he was in the Machinist? C'mon now. He was literally emaciated. Not every role an actor is going to be cast in is going to be the Hulk, man. I also greatly disagree that fasting is not nearly as healthy as eating 6 meals a day and working out all day. Fasting is on par with exercise, if not superior. Sleep is superior to exercise as well. Exercise has turned into the LeBron of health. He's not better than Jordan or Kareem. Top three is even pushing it, IMO.

Another thing to consider as well is eating 6 clean meals a day and exercising so much in a week is pretty expensive and very time consuming and most people just can't make that work. Fasting is a better option for them. You cited athletes, models, actors and personal trainers. What is that, like 5% of the population? If that? Seems like it's something the elite can pull off, but for the normal person, not such an inviting choice. Reminds me of your 'successful black man with a high paying job, nice car, nice residence, in great shape (probably eating 6 clean meals and working out 6 times a week as well) with killer game' being the norm and what most black men can easily achieve which goes contrary to the fact that we as blacks only own around 1% of the wealth in this country. I agree with you, that from an individual perspective, everyone can push themselves to be better, but from a realistic and statistical perspective, most of this stuff is just pure optimism and idealism.

They're also not mutually exclusive. You can fast for 16 hours and eat clean meals during that 8 hour window with regular exercise. I know of rich 1%'er celebrities that do this as well. Again, this is not the easiest thing to do if you are a normal person in the U.S. and are living paycheck to paycheck already not buying all your food from Farmer's Market. Most of us really don't have a choice in the matter, unfortunately.
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(08-01-2018, 06:45 PM)whiteisright4bbc Wrote: Fasting is on par with exercise, if not superior.

Yeah you lost me right there. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

Fasting is not better for you than exercise. I defy you to find empirical data to back that up. Not some whack job study done once, but a series of scientific research that shows that fasting is superior to exercise.

Good luck with that.
White Girl Connoisseur
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^ Never said it was a fact, although I believe there is a lot of data that should be taken into consideration on both sides (not even sure why this is a competition, though, as they aren't mutually exclusive and can be done together).

You say not to say it as a fact and then you go and say it as a fact. Where is your data? I posted some already. I doubt there is enough data to counter your bias for exercise, so there's no point in debating this any longer.

Regardless, like I said, it's not a competition (not sure why you turned it into one). They can be used together and you increase your health even more.

"First, your body burns the stored sugar, then it burns the stored fat. In essence, during feeding you burn food energy. During fasting, you burn energy from your stored food (sugar and fat). ... If you exercise while fasting, the body will start by burning sugar."

To be honest, though, fasting and exercise are very similar as well (despite you believing that exercising is considerably better).

"Insulin Reduction

High insulin levels inhibit the lipolytic process aka the breakdown of fat in your body. If your insulin levels never dip, your body will never have time to break down those fat cells and produce fat loss results. What you might not know is that both fasting AND exercise produce similar drops in insulin levels allowing the fat burning process to occur.

A study conducted at the University of Texas found a 50% drop in plasma insulin levels during a 72 hour fasting period. Not to mention, that 70% of that drop occurred within the first 24 hours meaning that even an alternate day fasting schedule could have dramatic results on the lipolytic process.

Human Growth Hormones

Human growth hormones (HGH) is a protein-based hormone that helps to regulate metabolism, build muscle, burn fat and better yet slow down the effects of stress and aging. HGH levels are known to spike during high intensity workouts but recently studies have shown that fasting can also produce a boost in HGH even when not combined with exercise.

A study performed at the Intermountain Medical Center Heart Institute found that following a 24 hour fasting period women experienced a 1300% increase in HGH while men had a whopping 2000% boost.

Metabolic Rate Hike

Many people worry that fasting vs exercise will lead to a huge drop in their metabolic rate leading to them gaining/retaining weight. However, a 2000 study by the American Society for Clinical Nutrition found that after 3 days of fasting (water, no food) the subjects metabolic rate actually increased by 1kJ/minute.

On top of that, another study by the University of Nottingham Medical School found that the subjects’ base metabolic rate also increased 36 hours into the fast. Most studies seem to indicate that your metabolic rate will only begin to slow 60-90 hours after fasting. That is why the intermittent 24 hour fasting model is preferable to ensure you maximize the benefits but avoid a drop in metabolism.

What Does This Mean?

The data here points to one of the major benefits of fasting.

Not only is it reducing your calorie intake and increasing your metabolism, it’s doing so in a way that makes your body produce the “post exercise” response bio chemically as well.

No other diet has this effect on the body. It’s like with this diet change alone, you’re taking on a diet AND light exercise regime even if you’re not physically exercising! This is partly why intermittent fasting can achieve such dramatic results when it comes to fat loss and strength gain.

Note: Clearly this doesn’t mean that the best approach with fasting is to skip exercise. Adding exercise into this mixture turbo charges things and leads to the truly rapid results.

So there you have it. Fasting = diet + exercise, while exercise = exercise.

1.) Sleep
2.) Fasting
3.) Diet
4.) Exercise (sorry, LeBron)

But of course, it's not a competition. We're not receiving paychecks for repping each team. We can do both at the same time and benefit from the results. I'm not team fasting and you're not team exercise. We are team facts and data. Let's take those as they come and be open to new and exciting discoveries, The Shotgun.

Also, I'd like to note that there is a difference between light exercise and going ham, but I would also like to note that most people just don't have time for all that. That's a LOT of exercise to equal the effects of diet or fasting (if that's even possible).

Trust me, I've gone to the gym 5 days a week for at least an hour at a time. If you have the right equipment, you can see just how many calories you are burning, 'eye test' in the mirror, etc and see the results. I have a scale and shit, too, man.

I've done both, separately and together. I can tell you with full confidence that exercise just isn't as impactful as it's made out (by some). Don't get me wrong, it's still great and you should do it, consistently, it just isn't the GOAT. This is both from first hand experience and from empirical data.

Have you tried fasting, Shotgun? Have you tried fasting and exercise together?
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As I've said before, I've done it all.

Fasting is great if you just want to lose weight. Fast, do calisthenics, and avoid sugar and carb heavy meals. Your appetite will fall off a cliff and you'll lose weight like it's going out of style. But the first 2 weeks will suck because you're hungry as hell. It take until week 3 before your appetite starts to fall off.

Six meals is for performance and muscle building. You need that protein to build that muscle up. Fasting will make you skinny and lean, but six meals will get you ripped. It all depends on what you're after. There is no one-size-fits all solution. You may have to mix in some fasting after a bulk if your regular cutting cycle doesn't take. Different metabolisms work differently.

But there's no chance in hell that fasting is better for you than exercise. Deleting sugar, limiting calories/carbs, in your diet is the only thing that can compare with exercise in terms of improving health. Fasting is a great additional tool, and it's useful, but but it's a tool not a staple.
White Girl Connoisseur
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^ You said it yourself, it's not about the amount of meals, but more-so the calorie intake. You can easily fit enough protein/calories into an 8 hour window to build plenty of muscle and be hulked out. Trust me, there are celebrities who do this.

Again, my mans, you don't have to choose one over the other. You can do both to great results WHILE ALSO taking in a ton of calories/protein in small windows to become absolutely shru-shru-shru-SHREDDED. I can cite sources if you'd like that swear by this and have the results to prove it.

That study I posted cited that fasting = diet + light exercise. I've done both as well, mi amigo, and let me tell you, you have to exercise a LOT to get to even sniffing range of the benefits of proper diet or fasting. Do you at least agree that diet > exercise? We need a starting point and if we can't agree on that at least, then we're doomed.

Exercise is a great 4th option. It's like Draymond Green, VERY useful and contributes no doubt, but it's still the 4th option at the end of the day. You definitely want it to be a part of the team, but it's not your go-to.

"Regarding the "feeding window," (AKA the joyous time during which you get to eat) you want to reach the same calorie and macronutrient totals as you were before—provided you were already on a solid diet plan that corresponded to your goals, of course.

You definitely don't want to undereat during your feeding window, or you'll compromise your performance in the gym and your ability to build or maintain muscle mass[1]. Get in all of your nutrients, particularly protein.

In theory, you'll be eating the same number of calories and macros per day, just with a different meal schedule than a typical eat-every-few-hours nutrition plan. Of course, you can always tweak calories and macros if and when your physique and training goals change."

The main issue seems you think fasting = eating less calories than the 6 meals a day plan, which you don't have to do unless you want to. If you still want to be jacked, you can fast AND eat a ton of calories/protein in the 8 hour window then proceed to kill yourself in the gym. No problem.
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I love fasting and its many benefits, but it doesn't accomplish everything exercise do.

My take from all ive read is that fasting, much like exercise, is something our body was built to do and in turn needs it- we didn't evolve to live on the kind of diet and habits of modern day. At some point in the past exercises were a 'weird' thing- someone going out to jog would be seen as excentric or some particular health need (1900s up until the 50s, if not earlier as well) - that was before fruther research and info spread. Same with yoga, it was some kind of mystical bs before its benefits became well know.

What i do believe is that everyone can achieve more doing it in some fashion- in combination with other things. Otherwise you will only improve in some performance level (and lower body fat), not to mention lower muscle. That can be prevented without exercises- i fasted without noticing muscle loss when combined with good meals and suplements; But that only happens if you counter fasting's muscle loss in some fashion.

Theres no one answer whats the best. It all varies on what you want to achieve, your lifestyle/reality and something people seens to ignore- our bodies are different. I for instance gain body muscle more easily (as well as body fat) to the point that my legs never became lean even during years sitting a lot without exercising (like its abnormal, when i show my calves people ask me what i do). Our genes work in the craziest ways and no solution will work exactly the same for any of us- unless you happen to try, by chance, a routine from someone with very similar conditions.
^ FYI, there is ALWAYS muscle loss with fat loss no matter what, even with exercise. You CANNOT prevent muscle loss from doing cardio. Even sprints/HIIT will lose some muscle, it's just not as much as long cardio. And yes, you can eat 6 meals a day and just lift with no cardio, but you retain a lot of fat as well, obviously. Just depends on what you want.

Yeah, sounds like you're an endomorph to me.

"These are: Ectomorph: Lean and long, with difficulty building muscle. Endomorph: Big, high body fat, often pear-shaped, with a high tendency to store body fat. Mesomorph: Muscular and well-built, with a high metabolism and responsive muscle cells."
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