Julio Gomez Charged With Sexual Assault?
(11-23-2018, 11:15 PM)Ipay4 Wrote: Is it better to say there is no evidence because no one has produced it, or is it better to believe there is evidence that no one has produced?  Innocent until proven guilty.
You completely mix up two different things. Whatever. Makes literally no sense to argue with that nonsense.
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(11-24-2018, 01:17 AM)whiteisright4bbc Wrote: ^ I get what you're saying, Ipay4, but you do realize that evidence cannot be provided as no one here has access to it and it won't be released to the general public, right? So what you're asking is impossible.

Now that that's out of way.

While I agree with you that it was a good point to make about his record having primarily trespassing misdemeanors, burglary charges and a very odd lack of sexual assaults, can you at least acknowledge that it's possible that Mr. Collins may have committed burglary at the very least? That aspect wouldn't really stray from his normal MO, now would it?

I'm not saying that it's the case, but sure, it's possible that he didn't in fact 'attempt' to rape her and was just robbing her while getting a good choke/grope in there. That's possible, sure. I personally wasn't there, so I have no idea if he had taken his member out or anything and was in the process of getting ready to rape her. It's entirely possible he had no intention of going full out rape, I concede you that point.

And sure, there is a bit of a philosophical question there about whether something can really be 100% proven as "attempted" or not. If you shot at someone and didn't kill them, you could in fact argue that you weren't attempting to kill them, but only injure them or warn them. That's a valid defense, I suppose. And it's even more grey with regard to rape cases where the "potential" rapist can stop at any time and not completely rape the victim, as in, penetration.

In fact, we should probably start by defining rape first before we continue any further. Everyone has their down definition of it. To some, rape is just forcefully engaging in any sexual activities with another without their consent. And they can define 'sexual activities' by any number of things from kissing to groping to a slap on the ass to rubbing the lower back, etc. So some may consider what Julio did to be outright rape, others may consider it to be attempted rape and others may consider it to just be sexual assault while others may consider it to just be burglary with assault. We'd have to figure out what everyone's definition of rape is and then come to a consensus or else we're just going around in circles like we have been (not that it wouldn't continue since evidence is not going to be provided as has already been established, not that evidence doesn't exist, but it's just impossible to be accessed by anyone here).

A voice of reason! Earlier in the thread I mentioned that I'd at least call it some from of violent sexual harassment. That's the most we can "prove" based on descriptions of the footage, testimony, and victim's injuries. Otherwise, I'd argue any attempt to overtly or "directly" stimulate yourself or the other party is rape.
To clarify, if I take my dick and fuck some girls armpit against her will, that's still kind of rape. Or, even if I don't actually pull my member out at all, I'd still consider any fingering or intense groping (stripping AND spreading a girl's cheeks/prodding holes for example) to be enough.There's a point where the amount of distress you directly give someone is just too rapey in my opinion, but I understand that's arbitrary.
To give an example, I don't think Aziz Ansari raped that woman, and if Trump grabbed someone by the pussy it wouldn't initially be rape (when exactly it would, idk, case by case basis).  

If only people would make adequate use of words like "molest" (means 'to bother' in similar languages), then maybe this stuff would be less hit or miss. The rape discussion in general needs more vocabulary, and less divisive politics.
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(11-24-2018, 01:17 AM)whiteisright4bbc Wrote: ^ I get what you're saying, Ipay4, but you do realize that evidence cannot be provided as no one here has access to it and it won't be released to the general public, right? So what you're asking is impossible.

Now that that's out of way.

While I agree with you that it was a good point to make about his record having primarily trespassing misdemeanors, burglary charges and a very odd lack of sexual assaults, can you at least acknowledge that it's possible that Mr. Collins may have committed burglary at the very least? That aspect wouldn't really stray from his normal MO, now would it?

I'm not saying that it's the case, but sure, it's possible that he didn't in fact 'attempt' to rape her and was just robbing her while getting a good choke/grope in there. That's possible, sure. I personally wasn't there, so I have no idea if he had taken his member out or anything and was in the process of getting ready to rape her. It's entirely possible he had no intention of going full out rape, I concede you that point.

And sure, there is a bit of a philosophical question there about whether something can really be 100% proven as "attempted" or not. If you shot at someone and didn't kill them, you could in fact argue that you weren't attempting to kill them, but only injure them or warn them. That's a valid defense, I suppose. And it's even more grey with regard to rape cases where the "potential" rapist can stop at any time and not completely rape the victim, as in, penetration.

In fact, we should probably start by defining rape first before we continue any further. Everyone has their down definition of it. To some, rape is just forcefully engaging in any sexual activities with another without their consent. And they can define 'sexual activities' by any number of things from kissing to groping to a slap on the ass to rubbing the lower back, etc. So some may consider what Julio did to be outright rape, others may consider it to be attempted rape and others may consider it to just be sexual assault while others may consider it to just be burglary with assault. We'd have to figure out what everyone's definition of rape is and then come to a consensus or else we're just going around in circles like we have been (not that it wouldn't continue since evidence is not going to be provided as has already been established, not that evidence doesn't exist, but it's just impossible to be accessed by anyone here).
I agree, burgulary or tresspass, given his history, is a real possibility.
Thank you for being reasonable.  I'd propose rape as a forceable act based in sexual penetration of a woman or man or done to an incapcitated person (ie slipped some date rape drug for instance). I'm willing to change my definition if someone has a better one.
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I think old Julio should consider putting you guys on his Defense team.
(Q):What's better than Roses on a Piano? (A):Tulips on my Organ ! ~Liberace
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