Ran into Black power guy at Lowes.
#21
(11-01-2018, 03:08 AM)elgoman Wrote:
(10-13-2018, 07:00 PM)sapphi10489 Wrote: So I'm coming out of Lowes and there is this black guy waiting by his car for someone to come out. He asks for a lighter and then goes into some rant about how blacks should stick together,can't trust whites,etc. So I'm getting ready to pull out of the parking lot and his girlfriend comes out. His girlfriend isn't just white but pale as hell. Those black power types are always the main ones full of it.

His girlfriend aside, he's 100% right as far as his arguments on what blacks should do. Hypocrisy in 1 area doesn't invalidate his argument. You're just a seedy self hater.

And Cosby was definitely railroaded. The fact is, there is no solid evidence Cosby committed rape, which is what's required to convict him of the crime. Only racism explains a jury rationalizing Cosby's guilt completely out of thin air and bubble gum. You're worse than Clarence Thomas.
Cosby admitted in a previous deposition to giving women Quaaludes before having sex with them.  That's not hearsay, dude that's evidence.  The only people repping Cosby are those who are ignorant of the facts.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2018/04/30/something-bill-cosby-admitted-years-ago-convinced-one-juror-he-was-guilty/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e8f2f218434d
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#22
(11-01-2018, 03:08 AM)elgoman Wrote: Hypocrisy in 1 area doesn't invalidate his argument.

Completely disagree. Hypocrisy invalidates EVERY argument. If you say one thing and do something else you have no integrity. Your authority to judge is completely negated because it tells us that you don't really believe what you're saying.

When evaluating anyone's argument the two things you look for are logical failures and continuity failures. Hypocrisy is a continuity failure. Any argument made by a hypocrite must be immediately suspect.
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#23
(11-01-2018, 11:51 AM)Shotgun Styles Wrote:
(11-01-2018, 03:08 AM)elgoman Wrote: Hypocrisy in 1 area doesn't invalidate his argument.

Completely disagree. Hypocrisy invalidates EVERY argument. If you say one thing and do something else you have no integrity. Your authority to judge is completely negated because it tells us that you don't really believe what you're saying.

When evaluating anyone's argument the two things you look for are logical failures and continuity failures. Hypocrisy is a continuity failure. Any argument made by a hypocrite must be immediately suspect.

I wouldn't say EVERY argument, especially if the logic is too on the money. But ignoring those cases, it does greatly diminish your argument rhetorically. If I say don't kill people because A: its just wrong, B: onlookers will like you more, C: others might wanna kill you because your a threat, D: if everyone follows the rule no one will be killed and there will be order, and E: killers should be punished- but then I kill someone, a reasonable person will still follow the rule because reasons C and D are valid incentives, E can still be upheld, and B might still be validated by society since its an interdependent variable. But A... no reason to continue believing it according to the hypocrite. 

Basically, if there's data or risk for individual arguments, reasonable people won't necessarily throw out the whole thing, they'd just keep the good stuff and ignore the more skeptical bits.
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#24
(11-01-2018, 02:11 PM)Spops53190 Wrote:
(11-01-2018, 11:51 AM)Shotgun Styles Wrote:
(11-01-2018, 03:08 AM)elgoman Wrote: Hypocrisy in 1 area doesn't invalidate his argument.

Completely disagree. Hypocrisy invalidates EVERY argument. If you say one thing and do something else you have no integrity. Your authority to judge is completely negated because it tells us that you don't really believe what you're saying.

When evaluating anyone's argument the two things you look for are logical failures and continuity failures. Hypocrisy is a continuity failure. Any argument made by a hypocrite must be immediately suspect.

I wouldn't say EVERY argument, especially if the logic is too on the money. But ignoring those cases, it does greatly diminish your argument rhetorically. If I say don't kill people because A: its just wrong, B: onlookers will like you more, C: others might wanna kill you because your a threat, D: if everyone follows the rule no one will be killed and there will be order, and E: killers should be punished- but then I kill someone, a reasonable person will still follow the rule because reasons C and D are valid incentives, E can still be upheld, and B might still be validated by society since its an interdependent variable. But A... no reason to continue believing it according to the hypocrite. 

Basically, if there's data or risk for individual arguments, reasonable people won't necessarily throw out the whole thing, they'd just keep the good stuff and ignore the more skeptical bits.

Nope.

See, the second you go against your own philosophy no one can know what you really think. Your words become propaganda that can be interpreted in a limitless number of ways. This is the problem with the Bible. Are there some good ideas in there? Sure. The problem is that because it contradicts itself the good ideas get muddled in with the bad. It becomes untrustworthy.

This is what happens with hypocrisy. You become the unreliable narrator and the listener cannot determine whether or not the good idea is valid, or just  a manipulation on your part. Do you really believe that killing is wrong or are you  just paying lip service to that idea. Your actions would suggest that you don't believe what you're saying and your message becomes subject to wide speculation.

So yes. Hypocrisy invalidates EVERY argument, no matter how logical that argument may be, because it's meaning becomes obfuscated.
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#25
(11-01-2018, 11:51 AM)Shotgun Styles Wrote:
(11-01-2018, 03:08 AM)elgoman Wrote: Hypocrisy in 1 area doesn't invalidate his argument.

Completely disagree. Hypocrisy invalidates EVERY argument. If you say one thing and do something else you have no integrity. Your authority to judge is completely negated because it tells us that you don't really believe what you're saying.

When evaluating anyone's argument the two things you look for are logical failures and continuity failures. Hypocrisy is a continuity failure. Any argument made by a hypocrite must be immediately suspect.
Your disagreement makes no sense. Let me explain: claiming hypocrisy "invalidates every argument" is a classic use of the "Tu quoque" or "appeal to hypocrisy" fallacy. Your above argument that a black man must be perfect to make an argument against coonery is akin to arguing only a perfectly moral man can claim, "Evil is wrong and we should always aspire to do good". Your argument is bad because any argument's validity, consistency or rightness is determined by the strength of premises, not by personal foibles of anyone who makes the argument.

A man can argue the sky is naturally blue, and be completely right in his argument, even if for all 25 years of that man's life hitherto that man believed the sky was naturally red. Likewise, a man can fail in being problack and still have good arguments for it.  

I'm beginning to revile IR porn, and hate coming on forums like these, because it attracts sellouts looking for reasons to justify their abdication of black duty. Game of Thrones is fiction, and like all fiction there is some contrivation and artificiality, but in this series there is genius too. I respect Stannis Baratheon's ideological stance in GOT books. His favorite quote was, "A man must do his duty"--to his family and to his people.

The quote comes from British naval commanders, who argued that all British men must do their duty and fight for England. The result of the Englishman's sense of duty, peoplehood and fidelity to white people, England, etc was complete control of the seas and the enslavement of black men:

"England expects that every man will do his duty" was a signal sent by Vice Admiral of the Royal NavyHoratio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson, from his flagshipHMS Victory as the Battle of Trafalgar was about to commence on 21 October 1805. Trafalgar was a decisive naval engagement of the Napoleonic Wars.   It gave the United Kingdom control of the seas, removing all possibility of a French invasion and conquest of Britain"

I bring this up to say Black men must do their duty to black women and children, no matter who makes the argument. 
[-] The following 1 user Likes elgoman's post:
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#26
Well, I learned something today. I never heard of that fallacy, and I'm pretty good with fallacies.

Plus Rep for you.

I'm going to take some time to think that one over.
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#27
(11-01-2018, 06:35 PM)elgoman Wrote:
(11-01-2018, 11:51 AM)Shotgun Styles Wrote:
(11-01-2018, 03:08 AM)elgoman Wrote: Hypocrisy in 1 area doesn't invalidate his argument.

Completely disagree. Hypocrisy invalidates EVERY argument. If you say one thing and do something else you have no integrity. Your authority to judge is completely negated because it tells us that you don't really believe what you're saying.

When evaluating anyone's argument the two things you look for are logical failures and continuity failures. Hypocrisy is a continuity failure. Any argument made by a hypocrite must be immediately suspect.
Your disagreement makes no sense. Let me explain: claiming hypocrisy "invalidates every argument" is a classic use of the "Tu quoque" or "appeal to hypocrisy" fallacy. Your above argument that a black man must be perfect to make an argument against coonery is akin to arguing only a perfectly moral man can claim, "Evil is wrong and we should always aspire to do good". Your argument is bad because any argument's validity, consistency or rightness is determined by the strength of premises, not by personal foibles of anyone who makes the argument.

A man can argue the sky is naturally blue, and be completely right in his argument, even if for all 25 years of that man's life hitherto that man believed the sky was naturally red. Likewise, a man can fail in being problack and still have good arguments for it.  

I'm beginning to revile IR porn, and hate coming on forums like these, because it attracts sellouts looking for reasons to justify their abdication of black duty. Game of Thrones is fiction, and like all fiction there is some contrivation and artificiality, but in this series there is genius too. I respect Stannis Baratheon's ideological stance in GOT books. His favorite quote was, "A man must do his duty"--to his family and to his people.

The quote comes from British naval commanders, who argued that all British men must do their duty and fight for England. The result of the Englishman's sense of duty, peoplehood and fidelity to white people, England, etc was complete control of the seas and the enslavement of black men:

"England expects that every man will do his duty" was a signal sent by Vice Admiral of the Royal NavyHoratio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson, from his flagshipHMS Victory as the Battle of Trafalgar was about to commence on 21 October 1805. Trafalgar was a decisive naval engagement of the Napoleonic Wars.   It gave the United Kingdom control of the seas, removing all possibility of a French invasion and conquest of Britain"

I bring this up to say Black men must do their duty to black women and children, no matter who makes the argument. 
100.  I am beginning to notice that the forum is increasingly dividing into 2 camps, out right sellouts and blacks with a spine. I noticed there was an influx of pro-black posters over the last 1-2 years, before this place was sellout central and I was getting banned constantly.  I will say since shotgun took over, there has been more freedom allowed on the board.
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#28
(11-01-2018, 09:03 PM)Ipay4 Wrote: 100.  I am beginning to notice that the forum is increasingly dividing into 2 camps, out right sellouts and blacks with a spine. I noticed there was an influx of pro-black posters over the last 1-2 years, before this place was sellout central and I was getting banned constantly.  I will say since shotgun took over, there has been more freedom allowed on the board.

You say a lot of whacko shit, but this is way out there.

I've been on this board for something like 15 years. There is a wide variety of opinion. What you see are the people who like to argue, not the full spectrum of the membership.

The other thing is, your opinion of what is or is not pro-Black is highly suspect. You indulge in wild eyed conspiracy theories and seem to think Obama was some kind of Tom. So you're not really in a position to be judging the board's membership.

Everyone who disagrees with you is not a sellout. Or a Tom. Or a house nigga. Some of your views are extreme. Others are outright ridiculous. You live in a glass house, so mind where you're throwing those stones.
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#29
(11-02-2018, 01:52 AM)Shotgun Styles Wrote: I've been on this board for something like 15 years. There is a wide variety of opinion. What you see are the people who like to argue, not the full spectrum of the membership.

Exactly! Some times, people forget that we come here for some fun time,
and we don't care about starting a fight.
Nothing to gain from that, except some self-gratification.

If sticking it to an unknown person in another state, country, or even continent, is the definition of manhood,
then I am a lesser man for not wanting to do it.

Also, usually, the more opinionated a person seems, the less intelligent and informed he is.
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#30
(11-01-2018, 09:03 PM)Ipay4 Wrote:
(11-01-2018, 06:35 PM)elgoman Wrote:
(11-01-2018, 11:51 AM)Shotgun Styles Wrote:
(11-01-2018, 03:08 AM)elgoman Wrote: Hypocrisy in 1 area doesn't invalidate his argument.

Completely disagree. Hypocrisy invalidates EVERY argument. If you say one thing and do something else you have no integrity. Your authority to judge is completely negated because it tells us that you don't really believe what you're saying.

When evaluating anyone's argument the two things you look for are logical failures and continuity failures. Hypocrisy is a continuity failure. Any argument made by a hypocrite must be immediately suspect.
Your disagreement makes no sense. Let me explain: claiming hypocrisy "invalidates every argument" is a classic use of the "Tu quoque" or "appeal to hypocrisy" fallacy. Your above argument that a black man must be perfect to make an argument against coonery is akin to arguing only a perfectly moral man can claim, "Evil is wrong and we should always aspire to do good". Your argument is bad because any argument's validity, consistency or rightness is determined by the strength of premises, not by personal foibles of anyone who makes the argument.

A man can argue the sky is naturally blue, and be completely right in his argument, even if for all 25 years of that man's life hitherto that man believed the sky was naturally red. Likewise, a man can fail in being problack and still have good arguments for it.  

I'm beginning to revile IR porn, and hate coming on forums like these, because it attracts sellouts looking for reasons to justify their abdication of black duty. Game of Thrones is fiction, and like all fiction there is some contrivation and artificiality, but in this series there is genius too. I respect Stannis Baratheon's ideological stance in GOT books. His favorite quote was, "A man must do his duty"--to his family and to his people.

The quote comes from British naval commanders, who argued that all British men must do their duty and fight for England. The result of the Englishman's sense of duty, peoplehood and fidelity to white people, England, etc was complete control of the seas and the enslavement of black men:

"England expects that every man will do his duty" was a signal sent by Vice Admiral of the Royal NavyHoratio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson, from his flagshipHMS Victory as the Battle of Trafalgar was about to commence on 21 October 1805. Trafalgar was a decisive naval engagement of the Napoleonic Wars.   It gave the United Kingdom control of the seas, removing all possibility of a French invasion and conquest of Britain"

I bring this up to say Black men must do their duty to black women and children, no matter who makes the argument. 
100.  I am beginning to notice that the forum is increasingly dividing into 2 camps, out right sellouts and blacks with a spine. I noticed there was an influx of pro-black posters over the last 1-2 years, before this place was sellout central and I was getting banned constantly.  I will say since shotgun took over, there has been more freedom allowed on the board.

I'm still trying to, after reading your posts on this thread, figure out what you're doing here. Not saying that you don't have the right. Don't get me wrong. But could it mean that you are just as flawed as the 'sellouts' you detest?
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