Mad Bomber Caught- Let the Racism Begin
#21
(10-28-2018, 09:56 AM)Ipay4 Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 02:12 AM)crocious Wrote:
(10-26-2018, 10:48 PM)Shotgun Styles Wrote: I don't know if we were ever really that unified.

But.

Compared to the 80s and 90s when there was real bipartisanship, we're fucked now.

The media is too invested in division. And social media is just gasoline on that fire. If you can't fix those things, and in a country with the 1st Amendment I don't see how you can, then this will get far worse before it gets better. If  it gets better.

You are correct, but at some point it seemed like we were making progress, now it is like we reached the apex and are now in free fall down the other side. It is one thing to have different opinions about how to run a government or address a problem, but it is near impossible to do that when people can no longer even agree on provable facts.

Obama's speeches in Milwaukee and Detroit today were interesting. He seems much more aggressive than he has been willing to be in the past. I'm not sure if he was driven by the attempt on his life or just that he is sick of seeing what Trump is doing to the country. Until he mentioned it, I had totally forgotten about the whole Ebola scare that the republicans used to drive up the fear meter and the media played right into that one the same way they did with the caravan.

One would think that at some point the republican base would finally learn not to let their leaders keep using fear to get them to regularly vote against their own interests.

You misunderstand the nature of Trump voters, these were the guys who use to live out in the woods complaining about blacks all day. Prior to Trump, politicians openly disavowed these guys but gave them the wink and the nod.  Trump is saying the opposite, white racist in the woods, come on out. They view their sole interest as having one up on blacks.  Any advancement for blacks or any other non-white brown group is in their view a setback for whites.  Hence, in their mind, Trump is better because he'll keep the blacks down.

That's a very simple evaluation of 60 million Trump voters
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#22
(10-28-2018, 09:35 AM)danhill544 Wrote: The Democrat party has become a joke,full of politically correct minions led by old multi millionaires who got most of their money while holding office.they dont give a fuck about this country,their soul purpose is to hold power and to push their view of what the world should be on the public.as for the republicans many of them are bought off by special interests and corporations.trump was really a third party candidate that hijacked the republican party.he was a great big fuck you or a giant middle finger sent by 60 million Americans at the establishment plutocrats tired of shit from both sides.do I think Trump is a rascist.no,not really.does he say politically incorrect shit that gets him into trouble with people just waiting to get their feelings hurt.yep,all the time.and the press is laughing all the way to the bank on the devisivness.

I agree with the first half of the comment, which is why many believed only Bernie could beat Trump and establishment Hilary would lose. But to think Trump is not a racist is delusional.  This is a guy who was sued and settled, then broke the settlement with the justice department for denying blacks housing, said he didn't want black accountants, claimed Mexicans can't be judges because they'd be bias because they are Mexican descent, claimed Mexicans are bringing rape, crime and drugs (ignoring that most rape, crime and drugs are done and brought in by whites), says he believes in innocent until proven guilty except when the accused were 5 black kids known as the central park 5 who he said after dna evidence proved them innocent that they should still go to jail, he said laziness is a trait of blacks, pushed a conspiracy theory that Obama was not born in America and lied about having proof that he wasn't born in Hawaii (which is all ridiculous because even if Obama was not born in America like Ted Cruz or John Mccain he'd still be a natural born US citizen because his mother is an American).  He pardoned Jo Arpaio convicted for being a racist, played the race card against NFL protesters while claiming he believed in the first amendment, the nazi marchers in the south he claimed there were good people on both sides after the white supremacist murdered a woman.  If Trump is not racist, no one can be categorized as a racist.
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#23
(10-28-2018, 11:02 AM)Shotgun Styles Wrote: We need to draw a distinction here between "Trump Voters" and "Trump Supporters"

Because they are not the same thing. A WHOLE LOT of people held their nose to vote for Trump because...

a) They hated Hillary.

or

b) They voted party line.


So let's not get the people who are having buyers remorse confused with the whack jobs at his rallies. Provided that the Democratic Party can field a candidate that's not as poisionous as Hillary Clinton (i.e. someone like Elizabeth Warren) there is no chance these people vote for Trump again.
Actually it is even more complex than that.

When I asked one of my friends who he voted for he just said republican as he did not want to say he voted for Trump. However when I spoke to him over the next few months he pretty much has all of the same "out to destroy us" and "we need to protect ourselves" views on immigration, was quick to throw the FBI agents who were having an affair and criticized Trump under the bus and that Hillary should have gone to jail for the e-mail server. So while he may say that he loathes the Trump, his political views are not that far off.

Another one of my friends who is solidly conservative wrote in another candidate because he could not vote for Trump or Hillary. It was actually refreshing to talk to a conservative who also stood by their moral principals and refused to contribute to putting a man as amoral as Trump in the White House.

Sadly many of my other friends who voted for him did so happily and were still big supporters of him the last time I spoke with them. No buyer's remorse whatsoever. I'm having a hard time reconciling the ones who actively support him because I've known them for most of my life and while I can appreciate them advocating for conservative principals, it is just disappointing to see how they can get behind a lowlife like Trump. I thought they were better people than that and I'm still struggling about what to do with those friendships.

Pretty much every one else I know voted against Trump so I don't know anyone in the buyer's remorse camp.
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#24
(10-28-2018, 10:01 AM)danhill544 Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 09:56 AM)Ipay4 Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 02:12 AM)crocious Wrote:
(10-26-2018, 10:48 PM)Shotgun Styles Wrote: I don't know if we were ever really that unified.

But.

Compared to the 80s and 90s when there was real bipartisanship, we're fucked now.

The media is too invested in division. And social media is just gasoline on that fire. If you can't fix those things, and in a country with the 1st Amendment I don't see how you can, then this will get far worse before it gets better. If  it gets better.

You are correct, but at some point it seemed like we were making progress, now it is like we reached the apex and are now in free fall down the other side. It is one thing to have different opinions about how to run a government or address a problem, but it is near impossible to do that when people can no longer even agree on provable facts.

Obama's speeches in Milwaukee and Detroit today were interesting. He seems much more aggressive than he has been willing to be in the past. I'm not sure if he was driven by the attempt on his life or just that he is sick of seeing what Trump is doing to the country. Until he mentioned it, I had totally forgotten about the whole Ebola scare that the republicans used to drive up the fear meter and the media played right into that one the same way they did with the caravan.

One would think that at some point the republican base would finally learn not to let their leaders keep using fear to get them to regularly vote against their own interests.

You misunderstand the nature of Trump voters, these were the guys who use to live out in the woods complaining about blacks all day. Prior to Trump, politicians openly disavowed these guys but gave them the wink and the nod.  Trump is saying the opposite, white racist in the woods, come on out. They view their sole interest as having one up on blacks.  Any advancement for blacks or any other non-white brown group is in their view a setback for whites.  Hence, in their mind, Trump is better because he'll keep the blacks down.

That's a very simple evaluation of 60 million Trump voters
Simple evaluation for a simple minded people.  The simplest explanation is often the most correct.
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#25
(10-28-2018, 11:02 AM)Shotgun Styles Wrote: We need to draw a distinction here between "Trump Voters" and "Trump Supporters"

Because they are not the same thing. A WHOLE LOT of people held their nose to vote for Trump because...

a) They hated Hillary.

or

b) They voted party line.


So let's not get the people who are having buyers remorse confused with the whack jobs at his rallies. Provided that the Democratic Party can field a candidate that's not as poisionous as Hillary Clinton (i.e. someone like Elizabeth Warren) there is no chance these people vote for Trump again.

Do you really think Warren is as bad as Hilary and why?
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#26
(10-28-2018, 12:16 PM)crocious Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 11:02 AM)Shotgun Styles Wrote: We need to draw a distinction here between "Trump Voters" and "Trump Supporters"

Because they are not the same thing. A WHOLE LOT of people held their nose to vote for Trump because...

a) They hated Hillary.

or

b) They voted party line.


So let's not get the people who are having buyers remorse confused with the whack jobs at his rallies. Provided that the Democratic Party can field a candidate that's not as poisionous as Hillary Clinton (i.e. someone like Elizabeth Warren) there is no chance these people vote for Trump again.
Actually it is even more complex than that.

When I asked one of my friends who he voted for he just said republican as he did not want to say he voted for Trump. However when I spoke to him over the next few months he pretty much has all of the same "out to destroy us" and "we need to protect ourselves" views on immigration, was quick to throw the FBI agents who were having an affair and criticized Trump under the bus and that Hillary should have gone to jail for the e-mail server. So while he may say that he loathes the Trump, his political views are not that far off.

Another one of my friends who is solidly conservative wrote in another candidate because he could not vote for Trump or Hillary. It was actually refreshing to talk to a conservative who also stood by their moral principals and refused to contribute to putting a man as amoral as Trump in the White House.

Sadly many of my other friends who voted for him did so happily and were still big supporters of him the last time I spoke with them. No buyer's remorse whatsoever. I'm having a hard time reconciling the ones who actively support him because I've known them for most of my life and while I can appreciate them advocating for conservative principals, it is just disappointing to see how they can get behind a lowlife like Trump. I thought they were better people than that and I'm still struggling about what to do with those friendships.

Pretty much every one else I know voted against Trump so I don't know anyone in the buyer's remorse camp.
I'm not so concerned about Trump's anti-immigration rhetoric per se.  It is the racism that underlies which is the problem. There are valid criticism of immigration legal and illegal but Trump is a hypocrite, at the time he was claiming to want to abolish chain migration his wife's parents used chain migration to enter the USA. He is not even a real conservative, he is pro-abortion and pro planned parenthood, pro-big government, pro-deficit, pro-gay marriage, pro big spending, pro-divorce has had a bunch of them, lacks morality, cheats on his wife incessantly, lies constantly, soft on crime, anti-law enforcement, big on corruption and sleeps with prostitutes and colludes with Russia.  This was the same group of Republicans who excoriated Bill Clinton for sleeping with Monica Lewinsky and lying about it, ONE TIME.  They claimed he was morally unfit to govern because he cheated.

You are probably going to have to cut those people off if you can,or limit your interaction with them if possible. They are probably closeted racist. I went through something similar, as I was in the conservative and Libertarian movement for over a decade, until some of them leveled with me and admitted they don't actually believe in conservativism, it was just me who thought that, it was all just a cover for their prejudices.  At first I did not believe it, and went through a stage of denial.  Then eventually, I accepted them for what they were, anti-black racist.  Most of the "conservative positions" are just apparently white racist code words against black people.  This is why they don't care if Trump follows any of them at all, as long as he shows he is anti-black, anti-brown and pro white, it is enough
Here are just a snippet of what I remember being told to me as racial code:

1. Small and limited government = Whites think that the federal government is doing too much to help black people.  They perceive the federal government having swooped in and stomped out slavery and then swooped in again with civil rights enforcement.  Hence they want to stop this.  But you can't come out and say we don't want blacks to have rights, so instead you say, small and limited federal government.  Yet when every Republican gets into power they drastically expand government (even Ron Paul admitted Reagan did this back in the 1980s).  Whites also are angry because they perceive the federal government as employing too many blacks, particularly because the feds cannot discriminate in the way the private sector can against workers.  So they seek to privatize government services even though the privatization cost 3-6 times more because of all the profiteering that occurs in it.  Privatization is just a code word for "fire all the niggers".  Also notice this small and limited government NEVER, EVER, EVER touches departments that disproportionately employ whites, never do they say we need to abolish the department of Agriculture or department of the interior. It is aimed at agencies that either help blacks or are perceived as disproportionately employing blacks.

2.States right = This is related to number 1. They understand whites control all the state governments except Hawaii. So they want the state to be able to discriminate against you without federal government interference.  Back when Ron Paul was running for president, Jon Stewart asked him, you talk so much about state rights, and the tyranny of the federal government, what happens if the state government behaves tyrannical, Ron Paul just laughed and said "Let's hope that doesn't happen".  The reality is that the states have been historically far more tyrannical than the federal government.  It was the states controlled by slavers and racist who passed almost all the anti-black laws and engage in all the voter purging.  States rights has always been convenient except when it wasn't, you see the slave states argued states rights to enslave blacks, so some northern states ok, states right to not enslave them, then, blacks ran away from slave states to northern states.  So slave states said, no more states rights, we want the fugitive slave act and dredd scott to force slavery into northern states. You see it again with the drugs and 2nd amendment issues today.

3. Trickle Down Economics = We are going to give money to the richest white men, and whatever trickles down to blacks they can eat the crumbs off the floor after the white man stepped on them

4. War on drugs = war on black people. Whites use the most drugs and more than anyone else, white cops who arrest too many white druggies are punished and sometimes fired.  It is just a coded racist war on blacks.  don't believe me, fine, believe Nixon aide
"Nixon official: real reason for the drug war was to criminalize black people"
"Ehrlichman said in 1994 that the drug war was a ploy to undermine Nixon's political opposition — meaning, black people..."
https://www.vox.com/2016/3/22/11278760/w...cism-nixon

5. Welfare reforms= we perceive all the people on welfare as black, so time to cut them off.
6. Obamacare = Blacks getting free healthcare and whites paying for it, NO WAY, cut them off.
7. Tax cuts = We perceive blacks as all being on welfare, so cutting taxes means we don't pay for blacks.
8. Law and order= Get tough on blacks.  Law and order doesn't apply to white opioid users dropping like flies by the tens of thousands.  It doesn't apply to the largest crimes in America history that occurred under the Bush administration with the fraud of 2008 financial crisis, not a single person went to jail and Republicans (and democrats) protected them.  Law and order never apples to any crime done or perceived to be done by whites.  Where was all this law and order for the wild wild west when white men shooting each other down like dogs everyday?  Where was all this law and order for neo-confederates reigning terrorism nation wide, instead they got amnesty and statutes built honoring them for terrorism.
9.  Tough on terrorism = tough on muslim looking people
10. Stop illegal immigration = Only if they are not white.  If millions of white people were pouring across the border, they'd be saying how can we help these people.  Don't believe me, go find any immigration article with an Irish or British or white illegal facing deportation and go to the comment section, then do it for a brown illegal and see the different sentiments. For the white guy they will be begging to keep him, if he is brown they will bash him.
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#27
Sorry I don't see any buyers remorse,if anything he's gotten more popular.his approval rating is now at o r above Obama's at this time 2 years in to their terms.while it's true hillary was a horrible candidate I think it would have been a close election whoever ran against him.his stance on nafta and China resonated with alot of people.theyve seen their factories and jobs decimated the last 30 years by both parties.this was a big fuck you sent to the establishment by people that voted for trump.as he renegotiates these trade deals it will become more profitable for these companies to come back to the u.s. it was his message that alot of people agreed with.thats just one issue that resonated with people.also Obama care was very unpopular.as for Elizabeth warren,the Democrats would make a mistake running her against trump.im not sure who they could run really,maybe that Beto dude from Texas after he losses to Cruz by double digits.he will have plenty of money left over and two years to prepare himself for Trump insults.
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#28
(10-28-2018, 12:34 PM)Ipay4 Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 10:01 AM)danhill544 Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 09:56 AM)Ipay4 Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 02:12 AM)crocious Wrote:
(10-26-2018, 10:48 PM)Shotgun Styles Wrote: I don't know if we were ever really that unified.

But.

Compared to the 80s and 90s when there was real bipartisanship, we're fucked now.

The media is too invested in division. And social media is just gasoline on that fire. If you can't fix those things, and in a country with the 1st Amendment I don't see how you can, then this will get far worse before it gets better. If  it gets better.

You are correct, but at some point it seemed like we were making progress, now it is like we reached the apex and are now in free fall down the other side. It is one thing to have different opinions about how to run a government or address a problem, but it is near impossible to do that when people can no longer even agree on provable facts.

Obama's speeches in Milwaukee and Detroit today were interesting. He seems much more aggressive than he has been willing to be in the past. I'm not sure if he was driven by the attempt on his life or just that he is sick of seeing what Trump is doing to the country. Until he mentioned it, I had totally forgotten about the whole Ebola scare that the republicans used to drive up the fear meter and the media played right into that one the same way they did with the caravan.

One would think that at some point the republican base would finally learn not to let their leaders keep using fear to get them to regularly vote against their own interests.

You misunderstand the nature of Trump voters, these were the guys who use to live out in the woods complaining about blacks all day. Prior to Trump, politicians openly disavowed these guys but gave them the wink and the nod.  Trump is saying the opposite, white racist in the woods, come on out. They view their sole interest as having one up on blacks.  Any advancement for blacks or any other non-white brown group is in their view a setback for whites.  Hence, in their mind, Trump is better because he'll keep the blacks down.

That's a very simple evaluation of 60 million Trump voters
Simple evaluation for a simple minded people.  The simplest explanation is often the most correct.

Well it's good to have your judgement of half the country being simple minded.by the way,the most intelligent people I know are uneducated.
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#29
(10-28-2018, 09:52 AM)Ipay4 Wrote:
(10-26-2018, 09:48 PM)crocious Wrote: I've had the news on in the background and it is amazing how many Trump supporters have been so quick to dismiss this guy as one of their own and do deep dives into all kinds of mental gymnastics to say this guy was really someone from the left. Facts laid out in front of them plain as day and they reject them because it doesn't reconcile with the narrative in their heads.

I really do not see how this country short of an a literal alien invasion will ever unify again.

When was this country ever unified? The media tried to make it look that way, but I cannot ever remember such a time.

Unified was probably the wrong choice in words, bipartisanship would have been a better one as it used to be that both sides could find a path to a deal to run the country.
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#30
(10-28-2018, 02:50 PM)Shotgun Styles Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 12:35 PM)Ipay4 Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 11:02 AM)Shotgun Styles Wrote: We need to draw a distinction here between "Trump Voters" and "Trump Supporters"

Because they are not the same thing. A WHOLE LOT of people held their nose to vote for Trump because...

a) They hated Hillary.

or

b) They voted party line.


So let's not get the people who are having buyers remorse confused with the whack jobs at his rallies. Provided that the Democratic Party can field a candidate that's not as poisionous as Hillary Clinton (i.e. someone like Elizabeth Warren) there is no chance these people vote for Trump again.

Do you really think Warren is as bad as Hilary and why?


After this DNA debacle? She's fucking TOXIC right now.

I've never been a Warren fan, I think she is a bomb thrower more than anything else. She is not a leader, she is a worker bee, but apparently she is starting to believe hew own hype and is considering a run for president. She never would have considered this several years ago, but power has a way of changing people.
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