WTF Liam Neeson
#21
(02-05-2019, 04:18 AM)Ipay4 Wrote:
(02-04-2019, 11:53 PM)wildman99 Wrote: i feel like the majority of non-black people feel like liam when ANY black person does something criminally, especially against their family. look, i get the "anger" part. anyone on earth would feel that way. but why would they think it's ok to harm a innocent person just because he shares the same race as the perpetrator? their beef should be with the person, or persons, who did whatever. NOT an innocent individual who had nothing to do with it. this is something i've never understood about certain people. why is it that black people get lumped together as ALL THE SAME. while everyone else gets the luxury of being judged individually? smh.  

imagine me, as a black man, saying what liam said. the FBI would be at my door within the hour. also, the local police would comb through their investigation files to see if some non-black person had been harmed in the past and if i fit the description of the attacker. do you think the police are doing that with liam right now? nope! how do we truly know that he didn't attack someone but the victim never reported it? the dude sounds like a fucking loose cannon and needs to learn to keep his privileged mouth shut! are we supposed to give him an award, and standing ovation, for the fact that he felt bad AFTER he couldn't find a innocent black man to harm? GTFOH! he should have kept that story to himself. but, of course, an arrogant, privileged male like him couldn't resist sharing such a tale.

even with all the treacherous shit that has been done to me and my family by certain people, i have NEVER had the desire to find an innocent person from their race and do harm to them. NEVER! the fact that certain people even have the luxury to feel that way is the foundation of what racism was built on..which was reserving the right to hunt down, provoke, and then kill any black person whenever they felt like it. smh. fuck liam neeson!

White people view black people as one giant monster.  If one black person is accused of rape, then killing any black person is justified. Just like when people go hunting for animals, any bear will do, they are all the same in most people's mind.  Yet these racist hamhocks ignore the fact they are what they accuse blacks of.  Yet they somehow view each other as "individuals".

Liam's comments prove this.  I bet there are white people and even some sellouts reading this who are thinking how could you say that.
No one white is going to say Liam represents all white men or most white men or a white cultural problem in America.  That is how I can say that.

Here you have a racist idiot admitting that he was looking for a black man to lynch over a "rape" allegation that no one even knows if it is true.  I have a sister who is a psychiatrist and was full in on feminism when she became one so she worked with rape victims, 10 years later she even admits around 80% of "rape" allegations are false where the woman just changed her mind AFTER sex because someone or something convinced her that the man was of a low status.

I disagree, he shouldn't keep his mouth shut, all these white racist need to come out their closet and show who they really are.  That way when I blacks argue for things and they come to tell us why we shouldn't have it, we can say we know you tried to lynch black men before, so your opinion doesn't mean anything.  I wish all the white racist would come out like this idiot.

As for why you and no black person thinks this way,maybe that is why blacks stay losing, we view whites through the lens of blacks and think that because we view all people as individuals, they will view us as individuals (which is false).  Whites view themselves through the lens of whiteness and think that because they only view people as their skin color and groups their behaviour is justified.  How else do you justify killing 6 million jews, 10 million Congolese, or 12 million Africans just for their skin color?
very well said, ipay4. i was trying to be as PC as i could in my initial reply by saying "certain people". because i know how sensitive people can be. you say ONE thing of criticism then it's "you're racist and hate ALL white people". props to you for not giving a fuck and coming right out with it!
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#22
Not to give Liam a pass, but what he said involved thoughts and a series of actions he took 20 plus years ago. He also talked about having to seek out guidance from a priest in order for him to calm his rage. Those who are ready to condemn the man to life for making these comments (like the folks in the many of the comments above) will never see it this way, but what the man did was bold, if not brazen, in that he acknowledged out loud a deep flaw that existed within him and what it took for him to move through it. I am not God nor am I someone who God deputized to throw stones of condemnation at the man, but let's be honest, Liam's sentiments are shared by many many people in this world. His comments further confirm that there exists an underlying current of Racism in this country, in this world, that is of the same power and magnitude as the power that runs through the electrical wires built into our walls. 

Those who are open to self-reflection, those who are willing to take responsibility, those who are willing to be accountable for their mistakes, those who make efforts to correct them, to share them with others are those who are uniquely equipped to make genuine strides towards changing this world for the better. 

Liam's thoughts and actions 20 years ago are a by product of the lessons he was taught, the experiences he had, and the experiences shared with him by those who are part of his inner circle - family, friends, neighborhood, culture, etc. 

While I have yet to hear/read the full comments and I choose not to judge Liam solely based on the snippets that are making the rounds, I am willing to bet that Liam's comments and the follow up (see GMA interview with RR) can do more to change the hearts and minds of those who think like him, those who behave like him, more than any comments coming from the tar and feather crowd. And, for me, that is the ultimate goal - less racism, less violence (not more) towards innocent people like the unwitting black men Liam tried, but failed to victimize way back when.  

Just imagine what an honest conversation (and by conversation I do not mean shouting match) from a place of empathy and open-mindedness can do to inspire change about thoughts, beliefs, biases and prejudices. Kudos to Imperius and others for making the attempt here in this thread. Random aside, but it seems that's what Badu was attempting to do in her initial comments about R. Kelly.

The problem is that we live more in a tar and feather world than we ever have. Most will take sides, the vitriol towards Liam will be thunderous, everyone will take refuge deep within their own echo chambers leaving those who think/thought like Liam more primed to learn a lesson different from the one that was availed to them.  Many of the comments on this thread thus far show show just how fruitless it would be for people like that to engage in such an open conversation. At best, walls and defenses would be drawn from the start, and, at worst, conversation would devolve into blaming, labeling, and name calling with comments from both sides falling in line with those found on storm-front.     

I know a black woman who was violently raped by a black man when she was young. The experience was so traumatic for her, so impactful to her that she has not able to to date black men since. Even more sadly, she was in a healthy relationship with black man at the time she was attacked and it fell a part even though he tried to be there for her in every phase of her recovery.  One can be quick to condemn her for this, a clear bias, but only she can walk in her shoes.

As am I sure some will try to point out, her experience and her reaction is apples and oranges to Liam's (in some ways), but the larger point is, trauma impacts everyone differently and more often than not in ways that trigger the worst in us.  Taking steps to move through those triggers without hurting others may feel impossible, but are doable. I choose to engage and challenge rather than condemn and dismiss.  

Tar and feather crowd, feel free to name call and shit on my comments in 3, 2, 1...
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#23
(02-06-2019, 03:12 AM)cumxplorer Wrote: Not to give Liam a pass, but what he said involved thoughts and a series of actions he took 20 plus years ago. He also talked about having to seek out guidance from a priest in order for him to calm his rage. Those who are ready to condemn the man to life for making these comments (like the folks in the many of the comments above) will never see it this way, but what the man did was bold, if not brazen, in that he acknowledged out loud a deep flaw that existed within him and what it took for him to move through it. I am not God nor am I someone who God deputized to throw stones of condemnation at the man, but let's be honest, Liam's sentiments are shared by many many people in this world. His comments further confirm that there exists an underlying current of Racism in this country, in this world, that is of the same power and magnitude as the power that runs through the electrical wires built into our walls. 

Those who are open to self-reflection, those who are willing to take responsibility, those who are willing to be accountable for their mistakes, those who make efforts to correct them, to share them with others are those who are uniquely equipped to make genuine strides towards changing this world for the better. 

Liam's thoughts and actions 20 years ago are a by product of the lessons he was taught, the experiences he had, and the experiences shared with him by those who are part of his inner circle - family, friends, neighborhood, culture, etc. 

While I have yet to hear/read the full comments and I choose not to judge Liam solely based on the snippets that are making the rounds, I am willing to bet that Liam's comments and the follow up (see GMA interview with RR) can do more to change the hearts and minds of those who think like him, those who behave like him, more than any comments coming from the tar and feather crowd. And, for me, that is the ultimate goal - less racism, less violence (not more) towards innocent people like the unwitting black men Liam tried, but failed to victimize way back when.  

Just imagine what an honest conversation (and by conversation I do not mean shouting match) from a place of empathy and open-mindedness can do to inspire change about thoughts, beliefs, biases and prejudices. Kudos to Imperius and others for making the attempt here in this thread. Random aside, but it seems that's what Badu was attempting to do in her initial comments about R. Kelly.

The problem is that we live more in a tar and feather world than we ever have. Most will take sides, the vitriol towards Liam will be thunderous, everyone will take refuge deep within their own echo chambers leaving those who think/thought like Liam more primed to learn a lesson different from the one that was availed to them.  Many of the comments on this thread thus far show show just how fruitless it would be for people like that to engage in such an open conversation. At best, walls and defenses would be drawn from the start, and, at worst, conversation would devolve into blaming, labeling, and name calling with comments from both sides falling in line with those found on storm-front.     

I know a black woman who was violently raped by a black man when she was young. The experience was so traumatic for her, so impactful to her that she has not able to to date black men since. Even more sadly, she was in a healthy relationship with black man at the time she was attacked and it fell a part even though he tried to be there for her in every phase of her recovery.  One can be quick to condemn her for this, a clear bias, but only she can walk in her shoes.

As am I sure some will try to point out, her experience and her reaction is apples and oranges to Liam's (in some ways), but the larger point is, trauma impacts everyone differently and more often than not in ways that trigger the worst in us.  Taking steps to move through those triggers without hurting others may feel impossible, but are doable. I choose to engage and challenge rather than condemn and dismiss.  

Tar and feather crowd, feel free to name call and shit on my comments in 3, 2, 1...
whether it was 20 years ago, or yesterday, doesn't matter. are we to believe that he's suddenly changed forever and would never think of harming an innocent black person again? there's no way i believe that. people don't change views that easily, especially on something as racist as that. to even have that thought process in the first place is inconceivable. an innocent black person shouldn't have to die because you're angry and want to take it out on someone. it's already bad enough they we have these dudes shooting up schools because they're mad because someone hurt their little feelings in class.

now take all the excuses you made for liam and put a BLACK movie star's name in there. would you feel the same compassion or no? if denzel washington said some white person raped a family member and he wanted to kill any random white person, what would your reaction be? the SHEER terror that most white people would feel about a black person saying that for EVERYONE to know would be felt WORLDWIDE. there would be people calling the police demanding that denzel be investigated. white people who are angry at blacks and have a position of authority will do any and everything in their power to find, or create, dirt on you to ruin your life. they would have denzel literally on his fucking knees BEGGING for the public to leave him alone. the backlash would be RELENTLESS and you know it.. but people, like you, are having a cow, because liam is being criticized with "words" via those on social media?! lol. bro, i can't even.. your precious liam will be fine.. he won't be effected by this because he's a privileged white male. if he didn't want to be criticized, he should have kept his arrogant words to himself. this dude really wants people to praise him for NOT killing an innocent black man.. AND there are actually people doing it, like YOU.. smh.

lol. you already knew you were going to get criticized for bringing up that black woman supposedly being raped. whenever people, like you, defend racists, they pull out ALL the stops. making up stories about imaginary black friends is always NUMBER 1 on the list.. simply put, i don't believe you. that story is fiction and you made it up on the fly because you thought it would fit well with your narrative.
no black woman that i know that has been abused/raped by a fellow black man have been afraid of other black men. she might have trouble with intimacy and trusting future mates but she's not going to be automatically afraid of ALL black men. why would she? that type of stuff is not ingrained in us. even black women that date white dudes exclusively don't say stupid shit like that. so try again on the fake story, bro.

i have tried hard to put myself in the shoes of people like you. i see all these people who make excuses for racism and i try my hardest to relate and see through their eyes. but, when i delve deeper, there never seems to be a valid reason other than they must get some sort of "high" off defending evil. his words were reprehensible and he deserves the criticism. period. end of story.

there is no "tar and feather' crowd. just people sharing their opinions. just because you might not like what they have to say here, and elsewhere on the internet, doesn't make your false labels credible. they have a right to their opinions just like you do. but, it's obvious that you can't respect their voices. you claim that you don't want to condemn and dismiss but that's EXACTLY what you're doing to those criticizing liam's reckless words. also, name-calling is not allowed on this board so why are you suggesting such? perhaps you're trolling for attention in hopes of that? Smile if anyone should be accused of name-calling, it's you for condemning people on the internet as a so-called "tar and feather crowd" for DARING to criticize a man that admitted to looking for a black man, to provoke, and KILL, for an ENTIRE WEEK. how you can make excuses for that is beyond me.. but, hey, your opinion should count to, even if it does suck.
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#24
(02-06-2019, 02:27 AM)wildman99 Wrote: i don't understand the point of your argument here. of course there are black people who hate white people. who said that there wasn't? but how many of them are out here openly admitting to wanting to harm innocent whites just because another white person did something bad? i assure you that number is few and far between. even if it wasn't, all you're doing is DEFLECTING. the issue at hand is a fucking movie star, who has millions of fans, saying dumb, racist shit like that. imagine if denzel washington, or some other black star, said that. their career would be fucking destroyed! but why do i have a feeling that this liam guy won't be majorly effected by his "confession" at all? THAT's the problem right there. certain people can do and say shit with impunity. that shit is maddening.

i want to say, as respectfully as i can, that people like you annoy me. i think you purposely entered this conversation with this "well, everyone does it, so why are you acting outraged about one person" nonsense to deflect. while i try my best to listen to dissenting voices, all the stuff you're saying is a given, so it doesn't even need to be said. i don't think that anyone involved in this thread is claiming to be perfect. we're venting about an popular movie star being arrogant enough to THINK he can say that shit on ANY public platform. you're trying to steer the conversation into some "but we've all been assholes" shit. wow, you're so enlightening. thank you so much. smh.

let me do some steering of my own.. 

my experiences with white people growing up in the south have been HORRIBLE. those incidents are in the high HUNDREDS. i'm deeply scarred forever. because of that, do i hate them all? no. do i trust them? most of them..NO! do i want to harm/kill innocent white people for the heinous actions of the others against me and my family? NO! now let's FLIP THE SWITCH. i have been on white supremacist forums where some idiot will say he hates black people because one 'yelled" at him.. one cut him off in traffic.. one black person looked at him in an angry way.. one dated a girl he liked, etc.. just STUPID, mundane shit that normal, SANE people should be able to just brush off their backs and move on. but a lot of them literally take one or two experiences with us, and turn it into "all blacks are bad and deserve to die" type of shit. smh. i mostly laugh the shit off and shake my head when i witness their racist bullshit online and offline. but you know what? that's our problem right there! a lot of blacks love to laugh shit off. but these racist people are DEAD SERIOUS. they want us to die off the planet simply for something we have no control over, our BLACK skin. i've never understood that shit. smh. 
yeah, i might not trust most but i solve that by limiting my interactions with them(which is next to impossible in certain areas). i don't go out of my way to HARASS white people or PROVOKE them, hoping some altercation will happen, so i can have an excuse to KILL them. even with all my bad experiences with them, I have NEVER thought that way.. and i'll bet MY ENTIRE LIFE, that mostly ALL black people haven't either. we're just not built like that. for some reason, we are the most FORGIVING people on this earth! we just want to be left alone and live our life in peace. but OTHERS can't help fucking with us. it's like it's built in their DNA or something. the shit is crazy..

The poster I originally replied to (not you) was ipay4 and what he said was that As for why you and no black person thinks this way,maybe that is why blacks stay losing, we view whites through the lens of blacks and think that because we view all people as individuals, they will view us as individuals (which is false).  Whites view themselves through the lens of whiteness and think that because they only view people as their skin color and groups their behaviour is justified.  How else do you justify killing 6 million jews, 10 million Congolese, or 12 million Africans just for their skin color?

My reply was that simply not everyone views everyone as individuals; and that anyone can view an entire group with some scorn or hatred and I provided an example i.e. my own interaction with police. It's a very simple concept. Shame that it eludes you so completely.... in any case, do try to remember there are other people in the conversation when you reply. It's not all about you and you ignore that when you reply. You address a comment that wasn't even directed at you but a prior comment and then don't address the context so that's silly.

You also have this weird concept that only black people want to live in peace and be left alone and I...I...don't even know how to respond because you read a few stormfront white people online you have this idea that every white person is just one traffic accident away from throwing on a pointy white hat?

Good for you- keep keyboard venting with impotent rage about a millionaire film actor saying this shit and there not be riots in the streets. I'm saying that any number of people have acted this way and that it is sadly something human beings seem to be able to do, regardless of race, gender, age, etc. 

It's not an excuse; you seem to have this idea in your head that understanding human nature is somehow an 'excuse' for these actions. What an odd and silly way to approach a conversation. Or life. You can sit here and throw random caps in your posts to express your fury or just understand that humans, period have an extraordinary capacity for cruelty towards each other.

In any case, I'll somehow find the strength to go on knowing that you are annoyed by me. It'll make my Corn Flakes a little soggier as my tears hit the cereal bowl, but still I will endeavor somehow...

You do something even worse than annoy me, you depress me. You make me sad that I wasted time this morning on this thread. I usually try to leave this board be and rarely reply to one or two threads every few weeks and this is fifteen minutes I've pissed away in a losing battle, like trying to teach a dog how to use a screwdriver. It's pointless endeavor and far better to have never started in the first place.
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#25
(02-06-2019, 02:41 AM)wildman99 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 01:49 AM)snakebyte666 Wrote: I'd rather have an honest guy who had racist thoughts in his past and admits it now than a guy who is a closet racist.
And I totally agree, even here are so many guys that seem to hate all whites. Hypocracy at its finest.
nah i think it's just that most white people can't stand to read/hear ANY criticism about their group. i guarantee that you won't hear any say "hypocrisy at its finest" when there are people criticizing blacks Smile  isn't that right? lol. 

if you're a good person, nothing said should effect you in any way. i'm calling out the bad guys only. it's not "all".

Do you know most white people? Or most black people? I can assure you that were I live (not in the US) there are lots of white people shouting "racism" way before any black would. They are true "white knights" Big Grin
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#26
(02-06-2019, 06:27 AM)imperiusrex Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 02:27 AM)wildman99 Wrote: i don't understand the point of your argument here. of course there are black people who hate white people. who said that there wasn't? but how many of them are out here openly admitting to wanting to harm innocent whites just because another white person did something bad? i assure you that number is few and far between. even if it wasn't, all you're doing is DEFLECTING. the issue at hand is a fucking movie star, who has millions of fans, saying dumb, racist shit like that. imagine if denzel washington, or some other black star, said that. their career would be fucking destroyed! but why do i have a feeling that this liam guy won't be majorly effected by his "confession" at all? THAT's the problem right there. certain people can do and say shit with impunity. that shit is maddening.

i want to say, as respectfully as i can, that people like you annoy me. i think you purposely entered this conversation with this "well, everyone does it, so why are you acting outraged about one person" nonsense to deflect. while i try my best to listen to dissenting voices, all the stuff you're saying is a given, so it doesn't even need to be said. i don't think that anyone involved in this thread is claiming to be perfect. we're venting about an popular movie star being arrogant enough to THINK he can say that shit on ANY public platform. you're trying to steer the conversation into some "but we've all been assholes" shit. wow, you're so enlightening. thank you so much. smh.

let me do some steering of my own.. 

my experiences with white people growing up in the south have been HORRIBLE. those incidents are in the high HUNDREDS. i'm deeply scarred forever. because of that, do i hate them all? no. do i trust them? most of them..NO! do i want to harm/kill innocent white people for the heinous actions of the others against me and my family? NO! now let's FLIP THE SWITCH. i have been on white supremacist forums where some idiot will say he hates black people because one 'yelled" at him.. one cut him off in traffic.. one black person looked at him in an angry way.. one dated a girl he liked, etc.. just STUPID, mundane shit that normal, SANE people should be able to just brush off their backs and move on. but a lot of them literally take one or two experiences with us, and turn it into "all blacks are bad and deserve to die" type of shit. smh. i mostly laugh the shit off and shake my head when i witness their racist bullshit online and offline. but you know what? that's our problem right there! a lot of blacks love to laugh shit off. but these racist people are DEAD SERIOUS. they want us to die off the planet simply for something we have no control over, our BLACK skin. i've never understood that shit. smh. 
yeah, i might not trust most but i solve that by limiting my interactions with them(which is next to impossible in certain areas). i don't go out of my way to HARASS white people or PROVOKE them, hoping some altercation will happen, so i can have an excuse to KILL them. even with all my bad experiences with them, I have NEVER thought that way.. and i'll bet MY ENTIRE LIFE, that mostly ALL black people haven't either. we're just not built like that. for some reason, we are the most FORGIVING people on this earth! we just want to be left alone and live our life in peace. but OTHERS can't help fucking with us. it's like it's built in their DNA or something. the shit is crazy..

The poster I originally replied to (not you) was ipay4 and what he said was that As for why you and no black person thinks this way,maybe that is why blacks stay losing, we view whites through the lens of blacks and think that because we view all people as individuals, they will view us as individuals (which is false).  Whites view themselves through the lens of whiteness and think that because they only view people as their skin color and groups their behaviour is justified.  How else do you justify killing 6 million jews, 10 million Congolese, or 12 million Africans just for their skin color?

My reply was that simply not everyone views everyone as individuals; and that anyone can view an entire group with some scorn or hatred and I provided an example i.e. my own interaction with police. It's a very simple concept. Shame that it eludes you so completely.... in any case, do try to remember there are other people in the conversation when you reply. It's not all about you and you ignore that when you reply. You address a comment that wasn't even directed at you but a prior comment and then don't address the context so that's silly.

You also have this weird concept that only black people want to live in peace and be left alone and I...I...don't even know how to respond because you read a few stormfront white people online you have this idea that every white person is just one traffic accident away from throwing on a pointy white hat?

Good for you- keep keyboard venting with impotent rage about a millionaire film actor saying this shit and there not be riots in the streets. I'm saying that any number of people have acted this way and that it is sadly something human beings seem to be able to do, regardless of race, gender, age, etc. 

It's not an excuse; you seem to have this idea in your head that understanding human nature is somehow an 'excuse' for these actions. What an odd and silly way to approach a conversation. Or life. You can sit here and throw random caps in your posts to express your fury or just understand that humans, period have an extraordinary capacity for cruelty towards each other.

In any case, I'll somehow find the strength to go on knowing that you are annoyed by me. It'll make my Corn Flakes a little soggier as my tears hit the cereal bowl, but still I will endeavor somehow...

You do something even worse than annoy me, you depress me. You make me sad that I wasted time this morning on this thread. I usually try to leave this board be and rarely reply to one or two threads every few weeks and this is fifteen minutes I've pissed away in a losing battle, like trying to teach a dog how to use a screwdriver. It's pointless endeavor and far better to have never started in the first place.
what i'm trying to figure out is if, 1) worrying about my writing style 2) accusing me of "keyboard venting with impotent rage" LOL! 3) making up shit, pretending like i implied that only black people want to live in peace, are supposed to be personal attacks because i DARED to question you? LOL! just like you, i'm entitled to my opinion on WHATEVER. you're free to criticize me but come on, bro, are we in elementary school? 

i'm aware that you were responding to ipay4. my reply was to this one and your earlier post in this thread. anyway, your answer to me pales in comparison to your original answer, sir. in your reply to him, you are basically trying imply that black people have all these relatives that hate white people and want to kill any innocent one they find.. you know damn well that's not the case. do i know black people who HATE white people? YES.. have i ever heard any of them say "man,i HATE white people!! i should go provoke some white person so i'll have a reason to KILL them"? HELL NO! you're on this "but black people do it too" bullshit. i can't rock with you on that assertion. you doing that is no different than what liam did. because you're essentially trying to put black people in this shit in attempt to throw us under the bus and shame us because we supposedly have all these relatives that want to kill white people. get the fuck outta here with that. i'm not accepting NONE of that. put that on your OWN relatives if they act that way. but we both know that you're bullshitting. i don't have to know every black person to know that MOST of us would never wish death on our WORST enemies. so for you to make this false narrative, that black people even come close to what liam admitted to doing, i'm not feeling that at all. that's my opinion. you don't have to like it. just how i don't like what you said. see how that works? 

listen, i don't have to be like you. i don't have to think how you think. i don't have to write things how you expect them to be written. i am me. you are you. that's it. you are welcome to criticize but try to keep it in the context. none of the slick shit you said had anything to do with the liam topic and what i questioned you about. at least when i told you that people like you annoy me, it was in proper context of this topic.. meaning i didn't like the way you tried to deflect things to "black people do it too" in regards to criticism of liam. you can get on your high horse and try to be the morality police all you want but i'm not buying it.

you're basically saying it's in everyone's "human nature" to hate others, etc. the whole "oh well, that's how life goes" thing is a lazy way of thinking. that's why the world is fucked up right up now, with everyone making excuses, instead of putting laws on the books to stop all the HATE nonsense. racism continues to thrive because no official wants to punish those who practice it the most. because, rest assured, if there were actual CONSEQUENCES, people would UNLEARN racism real quick. but since they know they can get away with it, they will continue to hurt innocent minorities whenever they have a "temper tantrum". 

nah, you're not depressed by me. that's not my doing. it must be your own personal vices. i simply expressed my distaste in a mostly respectful manner. you apparently can't handle criticism or to be questioned about anything you say. i can understand that to a degree. but, hey, it is what it is. 

it's not a winning or losing battle. we can agree to disagree. your engaging with me can be "pointless" in your eyes. that's fine. i can accept that. but things weren't that "pointless" when you threw black people under the bus trying to lump us into this topic as a scapegoat for the fucked-up shit that liam character said. you definitely thought THAT was worthwhile, huh? smh. anyway.. GOOD TALK. have a nice day Smile
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#27
(02-05-2019, 02:16 PM)imperiusrex Wrote:
(02-05-2019, 04:18 AM)Ipay4 Wrote:
(02-04-2019, 11:53 PM)wildman99 Wrote: i feel like the majority of non-black people feel like liam when ANY black person does something criminally, especially against their family. look, i get the "anger" part. anyone on earth would feel that way. but why would they think it's ok to harm a innocent person just because he shares the same race as the perpetrator? their beef should be with the person, or persons, who did whatever. NOT an innocent individual who had nothing to do with it. this is something i've never understood about certain people. why is it that black people get lumped together as ALL THE SAME. while everyone else gets the luxury of being judged individually? smh.  

imagine me, as a black man, saying what liam said. the FBI would be at my door within the hour. also, the local police would comb through their investigation files to see if some non-black person had been harmed in the past and if i fit the description of the attacker. do you think the police are doing that with liam right now? nope! how do we truly know that he didn't attack someone but the victim never reported it? the dude sounds like a fucking loose cannon and needs to learn to keep his privileged mouth shut! are we supposed to give him an award, and standing ovation, for the fact that he felt bad AFTER he couldn't find a innocent black man to harm? GTFOH! he should have kept that story to himself. but, of course, an arrogant, privileged male like him couldn't resist sharing such a tale.

even with all the treacherous shit that has been done to me and my family by certain people, i have NEVER had the desire to find an innocent person from their race and do harm to them. NEVER! the fact that certain people even have the luxury to feel that way is the foundation of what racism was built on..which was reserving the right to hunt down, provoke, and then kill any black person whenever they felt like it. smh. fuck liam neeson!

White people view black people as one giant monster.  If one black person is accused of rape, then killing any black person is justified. Just like when people go hunting for animals, any bear will do, they are all the same in most people's mind.  Yet these racist hamhocks ignore the fact they are what they accuse blacks of.  Yet they somehow view each other as "individuals".

Liam's comments prove this.  I bet there are white people and even some sellouts reading this who are thinking how could you say that.
No one white is going to say Liam represents all white men or most white men or a white cultural problem in America.  That is how I can say that.

Here you have a racist idiot admitting that he was looking for a black man to lynch over a "rape" allegation that no one even knows if it is true.  I have a sister who is a psychiatrist and was full in on feminism when she became one so she worked with rape victims, 10 years later she even admits around 80% of "rape" allegations are false where the woman just changed her mind AFTER sex because someone or something convinced her that the man was of a low status.

I disagree, he shouldn't keep his mouth shut, all these white racist need to come out their closet and show who they really are.  That way when I blacks argue for things and they come to tell us why we shouldn't have it, we can say we know you tried to lynch black men before, so your opinion doesn't mean anything.  I wish all the white racist would come out like this idiot.

As for why you and no black person thinks this way,maybe that is why blacks stay losing, we view whites through the lens of blacks and think that because we view all people as individuals, they will view us as individuals (which is false).  Whites view themselves through the lens of whiteness and think that because they only view people as their skin color and groups their behaviour is justified.  How else do you justify killing 6 million jews, 10 million Congolese, or 12 million Africans just for their skin color?

Really, you don't know any black people who hate all white people? I do, I surely do.

I know some black people who would Thanos finger snap the entire white race if they could. And in their case I understand it; systemic oppression will do that.

As to my own bias, I'm not a big fan of cops, period- don't know too many I'd embrace warmly and I'm fully aware that's a bias on my part. I know they're not all bad, but I won't trust a single cop for a second.- I always treat them with the wary eye of an opponent, even as I extend them their professional respect. 

And yes it's different than race; no situation is completely analogous- it's not the exact same situation but it's comparable in that my experience and my history and those I know have had issue with cops.- maybe only one or two experiences that have in the long term changed my overall perception. There are many I'd smack as soon as look at them given their attitude in dealing with the public, even as I know that much of it is psychology (erroneously applied) directed to control a situation through forceful words and actions.

But people say and do stupid shit and Liam Neeson said some stupid shit so boycott his movies, write petitions to movie studios to not cast him anymore, call him a racist piece of shit, say fuck you if you see him in the street, but let's not act like he's so completely removed from the rest of society in that he allows his biases to influence how he view entire groups of people.

Also your sister saying 80% of rape allegations are false?? You actually believe that? Because virtually every modern study that isn't put out by some conspiracy group would turn that number around. A major peer reviewed study that has been quoted frequently says that more likely only 2-10 % of rape accusations are false. I guess your sister was hanging around with some fickle hoes, huh?  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21164210
I do not know a single black person who hates ALL white people, most white people, yes, but not all.  And since most white people are racist anyways, and likely hate them, it would be hypocritical of me to tell someone you shouldn't hate someone who hates you for no reason except you being black.

And lets be objective here.  The few black people who likely hate ALL white people are the ones who lived around, with, and close proximity to white people.  They likely know more white people than you, me or most of the other people on this board and in many cases are even RAISED by white adoptive parents/families who sex abused them.  They likely dated white people, and had white people do terrible things against them, and whites cover up for each other so they likely got off with their evil shenanigans against them.

Now, with white people, it is usually the opposite, they don't even know any black people and hate them, and the few blacks they know, ignore their racist ass and pay them dust. I know there are exceptions to every generality, but we both know those guys waving swatikas and confederate flags are usually some Cletues slack jaw in WV or Mississippi or Texas who went to a near segregated school and never met a black man in his life, not some white guy living in a metro area.

Thus a black who hates ALL white people (while wrong in my opinion) has come to the conclusion to hate them after living with them in close quarters and having thousands of interactions in a meaningful way. Whereas a white who hates all black people, has no basis to make said judgement except his imagination.


I agree on your point on Liam Nesson, he isn't removed from the rest of white society,  in fact he is representative of MOST of white society, as I said, whites view blacks as a big giant monster, they are all the same in white eyes.  Whites who hate blacks will point to 1 bad black (but notice they never say I met 1 good black so ALL blacks are good?)  so they aren't even consistent in enforcing this double standard.


As for the rape thing, it is good you ask questions, because that was my reaction too.  To clarify it was 80% of the allegations that came before her, many of the women admited to lying after months in therapy, many of the women even admitted to lying after the man had been convicted of rape and served his full sentence years later.  As for do I believe that, yes. Why? 1. The definition of rape has been drastically expanded from no means no and a man forcing himself on an unwilling woman into a concept of "Affirmative consent on EVERY SINGLE SEX ACT where the woman can WITHDRAW consent DURING sex (and doesn't have to actually notify you that she did so). 2. Women do not like owning their sleeping with men who are later determined by her or her peer group (friends, family, media) to be not worthy of fucking them.  We had Kim Kardashian clearly enjoy being fucked by her boyfriend Ray J on tape now trying to claim he "drugged her up", we seen the same shit wth Sasha Grey.

You have to ask how is the peer reviewed study coming to the conclusion that only 2-10% of rape accusations are false? What was the definition of rape that they used. How did they determine if a rape indeed occurred or not? They just took the word of the ACCUSER for it.  Meaning, only the people dumb enough to admit to falsely accusing people are counted as false accusations! They did not for instance allow an objective 3rd party to judge if the rape occurred or not.

When the US Air Force + FBI studied false rape allegations back in the 80s, this is what they came up with

[Image: 1*FFc8WilX102TPMlbDJNPxA.jpeg]


[Image: 3GSME2BECFH2DOOOEWXNZJ7JIA.png]

This means, after all the experts on rape have weighed in, and after the most qualified people to determine if rape occurred, occurred or did not occur only .7/31 = 2.25% result in conviction.

I mean only 5.7 out of 31 = 18% even result in an arrest.  So the police don't even have enough evidence to form PROBABLE cause of rape in 82% of cases reported.  This seems in line with the 80% figure from my sister.  We live in a country where men are arrested for literally nothing, especially black.  Do you really think if there was even a shred of evidence the cops would hesitate to throw rapists behind bars?
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#28
(02-06-2019, 08:49 AM)snakebyte666 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 02:41 AM)wildman99 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 01:49 AM)snakebyte666 Wrote: I'd rather have an honest guy who had racist thoughts in his past and admits it now than a guy who is a closet racist.
And I totally agree, even here are so many guys that seem to hate all whites. Hypocracy at its finest.
nah i think it's just that most white people can't stand to read/hear ANY criticism about their group. i guarantee that you won't hear any say "hypocrisy at its finest" when there are people criticizing blacks Smile  isn't that right? lol. 

if you're a good person, nothing said should effect you in any way. i'm calling out the bad guys only. it's not "all".

Do you know most white people? Or most black people? I can assure you that were I live (not in the US) there are lots of white people shouting "racism" way before any black would. They are true "white knights" Big Grin
none of us know "most" white or black people. we can only go by personal experiences. from MY experiences in the south here in the U.S., white people will fight tooth and nail to defend other whites accused of racism. they make up all kinds of excuses even when the evidence is staring them right in the face.. i try my best not to say "all" white people to anything.. but, boy oh boy, the people here make it really hard not to. "most" is my description these days.

it seems to me that you're annoyed with those in your country who supposedly shout "racism" at everything. i'm not sure if that means they're good people or not. i feel like everyone should confront racism at every turn. to combat this in the united states, we will definitely need white allies. but most are too lazy to do anything. so maybe your country's people have the right idea? Smile
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#29
(02-06-2019, 04:44 AM)wildman99 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 03:12 AM)cumxplorer Wrote: Not to give Liam a pass, but what he said involved thoughts and a series of actions he took 20 plus years ago. He also talked about having to seek out guidance from a priest in order for him to calm his rage. Those who are ready to condemn the man to life for making these comments (like the folks in the many of the comments above) will never see it this way, but what the man did was bold, if not brazen, in that he acknowledged out loud a deep flaw that existed within him and what it took for him to move through it. I am not God nor am I someone who God deputized to throw stones of condemnation at the man, but let's be honest, Liam's sentiments are shared by many many people in this world. His comments further confirm that there exists an underlying current of Racism in this country, in this world, that is of the same power and magnitude as the power that runs through the electrical wires built into our walls. 

Those who are open to self-reflection, those who are willing to take responsibility, those who are willing to be accountable for their mistakes, those who make efforts to correct them, to share them with others are those who are uniquely equipped to make genuine strides towards changing this world for the better. 

Liam's thoughts and actions 20 years ago are a by product of the lessons he was taught, the experiences he had, and the experiences shared with him by those who are part of his inner circle - family, friends, neighborhood, culture, etc. 

While I have yet to hear/read the full comments and I choose not to judge Liam solely based on the snippets that are making the rounds, I am willing to bet that Liam's comments and the follow up (see GMA interview with RR) can do more to change the hearts and minds of those who think like him, those who behave like him, more than any comments coming from the tar and feather crowd. And, for me, that is the ultimate goal - less racism, less violence (not more) towards innocent people like the unwitting black men Liam tried, but failed to victimize way back when.  

Just imagine what an honest conversation (and by conversation I do not mean shouting match) from a place of empathy and open-mindedness can do to inspire change about thoughts, beliefs, biases and prejudices. Kudos to Imperius and others for making the attempt here in this thread. Random aside, but it seems that's what Badu was attempting to do in her initial comments about R. Kelly.

The problem is that we live more in a tar and feather world than we ever have. Most will take sides, the vitriol towards Liam will be thunderous, everyone will take refuge deep within their own echo chambers leaving those who think/thought like Liam more primed to learn a lesson different from the one that was availed to them.  Many of the comments on this thread thus far show show just how fruitless it would be for people like that to engage in such an open conversation. At best, walls and defenses would be drawn from the start, and, at worst, conversation would devolve into blaming, labeling, and name calling with comments from both sides falling in line with those found on storm-front.     

I know a black woman who was violently raped by a black man when she was young. The experience was so traumatic for her, so impactful to her that she has not able to to date black men since. Even more sadly, she was in a healthy relationship with black man at the time she was attacked and it fell a part even though he tried to be there for her in every phase of her recovery.  One can be quick to condemn her for this, a clear bias, but only she can walk in her shoes.

As am I sure some will try to point out, her experience and her reaction is apples and oranges to Liam's (in some ways), but the larger point is, trauma impacts everyone differently and more often than not in ways that trigger the worst in us.  Taking steps to move through those triggers without hurting others may feel impossible, but are doable. I choose to engage and challenge rather than condemn and dismiss.  

Tar and feather crowd, feel free to name call and shit on my comments in 3, 2, 1...
whether it was 20 years ago, or yesterday, doesn't matter. are we to believe that he's suddenly changed forever and would never think of harming an innocent black person again? there's no way i believe that. people don't change views that easily, especially on something as racist as that. to even have that thought process in the first place is inconceivable. an innocent black person shouldn't have to die because you're angry and want to take it out on someone. Agreed it's already bad enough they we have these dudes shooting up schools because they're mad because someone hurt their little feelings in class. Also agreed, though "these dudes" are not the only ones who commit violence because someone hurt their little feelings in class. The prisons of this world are full of such dudes and dudettes, and they come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. 

now take all the excuses you made for Liam Please, do share, what excuses do I make for Liam? and put a BLACK movie star's name in there. would you feel the same compassion or no? I'd have the same open mindedness that I have here. if denzel washington said some white person raped a family member and he wanted to kill any random white person, what would your reaction be? It depends on, in what context he said it as the words themselves don't live in a vacuum. the SHEER terror that most white people would feel about a black person saying that for EVERYONE to know would be felt WORLDWIDE. the same way that many people regardless of color are feeling about what Liam has said. there would be people calling the police demanding that denzel be investigated. white people who are angry at blacks and have a position of authority will do any and everything in their power to find, or create, dirt on you to ruin your life. Some would, I am sure, the same way that some want to condemn Liam today. Others would not. they would have denzel literally on his fucking knees BEGGING for the public to leave him alone. the backlash would be RELENTLESS and you know it. Probably would be. the same way it typically is for those who paint a whole group with the same brush but people, like you, are having a cow, There is no cow being had, none at all. I am simply saying what any psychology text book will point out - that change - can only come when the people committing that hurtful acts, the hurtful thoughts do the changing and that can only happen when they come to realize that change is necessary and that they, and the world, would benefit from their change and growth. Does that happen over night? Obviously not, but it does happen and has happened when someone who wants to change is shown something about themselves that they did not previously know or realize about themselves. Racial attitudes have changed over time in this country, whether you want to believe or accept it or not, and most of it has come when people are able to step into the shoes of someone else, see things from the POV of those that they victimize. To give Liam, or Denzel, or whomever, the benefit of the doubt (based on my understanding of all of Liam's statements regarding his story within the context that he share it affords people the opportunity to see the error of the things they do, the statements they make, not because someone else wants name call them for said statements. Often, the name calling only serves to make the name caller feel better, but the unintended results are that people are put on the defensive, shamed into silence which only makes change harder and less likely. The true racists/ other -ists in this world want people like Liam to keep his mouth shut more those who are criticizing him - assuming the point and context of his story is true - because such comments disarm and provide opportunities for people to see the error of their own ways much in the same way many people changed their POV about black people and racism because they saw first hand what their behavior and statements look like.  because liam is being criticized with "words" via those on social media?! lol. bro, i can't even.. your precious liam will be fine.. Again, it's not about Liam, it's about changing the behaviors of those who come after Liam he won't be effected by this because he's a privileged white male. if he didn't want to be criticized, he should have kept his arrogant words to himself. Again, you miss my point, it's not about the criticism, let the criticism rain down on Liam. It is more than understandable it's about  this dude really wants people to praise him for NOT killing an innocent black man.. AND there are actually people doing it, like YOU.. smh. I am not praising Liam, nor am I defending him. I am simply pointing out the opportunity that is availed to the rest of humanity in a moment such as this one. 

lol. you already knew you were going to get criticized for bringing up that black woman supposedly being raped. whenever people, like you, defend racists, they pull out ALL the stops. making up stories about imaginary black friends is always NUMBER 1 on the list.. simply put, i don't believe you. that story is fiction and you made it up on the fly because you thought it would fit well with your narrative. choose to believe what you'd like - though it seems your dismissal and disbelief are there to serve your narrative and point of view.  
no black woman that i know that has been abused/raped by a fellow black man have been afraid of other black men. Reread what I said - no mention of her being afraid of other black men, heck she has plenty of black friends, what I said what was that she has not been able to date another black man since. she might have trouble with intimacy and trusting future mates but she's not going to be automatically afraid of ALL black men. why would she? that type of stuff is not ingrained in us. even black women that date white dudes exclusively don't say stupid shit like that. REREAD what I said. so try again on the fake story, bro. I wish it were false, not because it fits your/mine/ or anyone's narrative, but because I [b]genuinely care about my friend's health and wellbeing, ...bro[/b]

i have tried hard to put myself in the shoes of people like you. Your statements overall and just above about the "fake" story suggests otherwise i see all these people who make excuses for racism What excuses are being made about the dude's racism? and i try my hardest to relate and see through their eyes. I encourage you to try harder, but perhaps without the emotion and more from an effort of objectivity  but, when i delve deeper, there never seems to be a valid reason other than they must get some sort of "high" off defending evil. his words were reprehensible and he deserves the criticism. period. end of story. You know nothing about me. Though I am here if you would like to ask and not assume or project.  

there is no "tar and feather' crowd. just people sharing their opinions. I'll take that - "Tar and feather" was an unfortunate choice of words as it created room for people such as yourself to completely misread and misinterpret my thoughts.  just because you might not like what they have to say here, and elsewhere on the internet, doesn't make your false labels credible.  they have a right to their opinions just like you do. but, it's obvious that you can't respect their voices. do tell, how is it so obvious that I don't respect their voices? you claim that you don't want to condemn and dismiss but that's EXACTLY what you're doing to those criticizing liam's reckless words. where do I condemn and dismiss them? I only point out that such statements instigate defensiveness which only make it harder for self-reflection to occur also, name-calling is not allowed on this board so why are you suggesting such? Sellouts, uncle toms, apologists are all names that posts here have used to describe people who may not agree with their point of view perhaps you're trolling for attention in hopes of that? Smile No trolling here, as I did not condemn anyone for their sentiments - though I can see how you clearly see differently due my use of  "tar and feather" if anyone should be accused of name-calling, it's you for condemning people on the internet as a so-called "tar and feather crowd" for DARING to criticize a man that admitted to looking for a black man, to provoke, and KILL, for an ENTIRE WEEK.  how you can make excuses for that is beyond me.. but, hey, your opinion should count to, even if it does suck. Again, where do I condemn the critics save for the tar and feather term which was used as a shortcut to point out how such criticisms put people on a defensive and, thus, make it harder for them to see the opportunity that available to challenge their own thingking and point of view. There are no excuses made for the man's comments. any attempt to see otherwise is revisionist history.   
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#30
(02-06-2019, 09:27 AM)wildman99 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 08:49 AM)snakebyte666 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 02:41 AM)wildman99 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 01:49 AM)snakebyte666 Wrote: I'd rather have an honest guy who had racist thoughts in his past and admits it now than a guy who is a closet racist.
And I totally agree, even here are so many guys that seem to hate all whites. Hypocracy at its finest.
nah i think it's just that most white people can't stand to read/hear ANY criticism about their group. i guarantee that you won't hear any say "hypocrisy at its finest" when there are people criticizing blacks Smile  isn't that right? lol. 

if you're a good person, nothing said should effect you in any way. i'm calling out the bad guys only. it's not "all".

Do you know most white people? Or most black people? I can assure you that were I live (not in the US) there are lots of white people shouting "racism" way before any black would. They are true "white knights" Big Grin
none of us know "most" white or black people. we can only go by personal experiences. from MY experiences in the south here in the U.S., white people will fight tooth and nail to defend other whites accused of racism. they make up all kinds of excuses even when the evidence is staring them right in the face.. i try my best not to say "all" white people to anything.. but, boy oh boy, the people here make it really hard not to. "most" is my description these days.

it seems to me that you're annoyed with those in your country who supposedly shout "racism" at everything. i'm not sure if that means they're good people or not. i feel like everyone should confront racism at every turn. to combat this in the united states, we will definitely need white allies. but most are too lazy to do anything. so maybe your country's people have the right idea? Smile
It depends. When people start seeing racism in the most innocent things it's not the right idea anymore. Just like parts of feminism or other things.
If someone tells a joke about blacks and a white person shouts racism while I find it innocent and actually funny, then yes, it does annoy me. You know why? Because whites want to define what's racist and what not towards a group they are no part of. They can start their outrage to support blacks that say something is racist but they should shut the fuck up when even blacks don't mind. So in general i hate white knights and social justice warriors since at the end of the day they just do it to feel good.
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