WTF Liam Neeson
#31
(02-06-2019, 02:27 AM)wildman99 Wrote:
(02-05-2019, 03:27 PM)imperiusrex Wrote:
(02-05-2019, 02:32 PM)blackalpha Wrote:
(02-05-2019, 02:16 PM)imperiusrex Wrote: Really, you don't know any black people who hate all white people? I do, I surely do.

I know some black people who would Thanos finger snap the entire white race if they could. And in their case I understand it; systemic oppression will do that.

As to my own bias, I'm not a big fan of cops, period- don't know too many I'd embrace warmly and I'm fully aware that's a bias on my part. I know they're not all bad, but I won't trust a single cop for a second.- I always treat them with the wary eye of an opponent, even as I extend them their professional respect. 

And yes it's different than race; no situation is completely analogous- it's not the exact same situation but it's comparable in that my experience and my history and those I know have had issue with cops.- maybe only one or two experiences that have in the long term changed my overall perception. There are many I'd smack as soon as look at them given their attitude in dealing with the public, even as I know that much of it is psychology (erroneously applied) directed to control a situation through forceful words and actions.

But people say and do stupid shit and Liam Neeson said some stupid shit so boycott his movies, write petitions to movie studios to not cast him anymore, call him a racist piece of shit, say fuck you if you see him in the street, but let's not act like he's so completely removed from the rest of society in that he allows his biases to influence how he view entire groups of people.

Also your sister saying 80% of rape allegations are false?? You actually believe that? Because virtually every modern study that isn't put out by some conspiracy group would turn that number around. A major peer reviewed study that has been quoted frequently says that more likely only 2-10 % of rape accusations are false. I guess your sister was hanging around with some fickle hoes, huh?  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21164210

Look at you trying to reason with the devils. This guy felt that way because he knew he could kill a black person and claim self defense. He said he tried provoking black people so he could kill them. It's timely how this is on Trayvon Martin's 24th birthday. The man that murdered him said he was looking to start shit like this old fucker.

I'm not trying to reason with the devil; but let's not be silly. If you don't have a black relative who has said he or she hates all white people then you live with Mr. Drummond and you are adopted and it takes Diff'rent Strokes to move the world, my friend...

Again, Neeson had a bias against all black people; that makes him a terrible human being in his treatment of black people. And again I advocated taking every step you could to reduce his Hollywood career to ruins- he was a stupid mother fucker.

That said, does that make him alone in the universe? Absolutely not. Many people have done terrible things to other people out of race and hate and viewpoints that were ridiculous and based on a small set of experiences. I've had similar feelings at time and have to fight them because I know they are a bias and if you are more enlightened than me then great, but I can't act like I haven't been an asshole of a human being myself at times. 

I'm not saying it's completely comparable but I understand the genesis of it.
i don't understand the point of your argument here. of course there are black people who hate white people. who said that there wasn't? but how many of them are out here openly admitting to wanting to harm innocent whites just because another white person did something bad? i assure you that number is few and far between. even if it wasn't, all you're doing is DEFLECTING. the issue at hand is a fucking movie star, who has millions of fans, saying dumb, racist shit like that. imagine if denzel washington, or some other black star, said that. their career would be fucking destroyed! but why do i have a feeling that this liam guy won't be majorly effected by his "confession" at all? THAT's the problem right there. certain people can do and say shit with impunity. that shit is maddening.

i want to say, as respectfully as i can, that people like you annoy me. i think you purposely entered this conversation with this "well, everyone does it, so why are you acting outraged about one person" nonsense to deflect. while i try my best to listen to dissenting voices, all the stuff you're saying is a given, so it doesn't even need to be said. i don't think that anyone involved in this thread is claiming to be perfect. we're venting about an popular movie star being arrogant enough to THINK he can say that shit on ANY public platform. you're trying to steer the conversation into some "but we've all been assholes" shit. wow, you're so enlightening. thank you so much. smh.

let me do some steering of my own.. 

my experiences with white people growing up in the south have been HORRIBLE. those incidents are in the high HUNDREDS. i'm deeply scarred forever. because of that, do i hate them all? no. do i trust them? most of them..NO! do i want to harm/kill innocent white people for the heinous actions of the others against me and my family? NO! now let's FLIP THE SWITCH. i have been on white supremacist forums where some idiot will say he hates black people because one 'yelled" at him.. one cut him off in traffic.. one black person looked at him in an angry way.. one dated a girl he liked, etc.. just STUPID, mundane shit that normal, SANE people should be able to just brush off their backs and move on. but a lot of them literally take one or two experiences with us, and turn it into "all blacks are bad and deserve to die" type of shit. smh. i mostly laugh the shit off and shake my head when i witness their racist bullshit online and offline. but you know what? that's our problem right there! a lot of blacks love to laugh shit off. but these racist people are DEAD SERIOUS. they want us to die off the planet simply for something we have no control over, our BLACK skin. i've never understood that shit. smh. 
yeah, i might not trust most but i solve that by limiting my interactions with them(which is next to impossible in certain areas). i don't go out of my way to HARASS white people or PROVOKE them, hoping some altercation will happen, so i can have an excuse to KILL them. even with all my bad experiences with them, I have NEVER thought that way.. and i'll bet MY ENTIRE LIFE, that mostly ALL black people haven't either. we're just not built like that. for some reason, we are the most FORGIVING people on this earth! we just want to be left alone and live our life in peace. but OTHERS can't help fucking with us. it's like it's built in their DNA or something. the shit is crazy..

Nail meet hammer.  Dead on. Cool
I think the reason why others enjoy fucking with us, is because they can't stand to see us happy.  Probably because they hate their own pathetic lives.
If black people were as racist as white people, none of us would be in America, because when whites came to Africa to enslave blacks they would have been murdered on sight.

"Whiteness is an identity that arises entirely out of oppression.  Whiteness is not a culture, it is not a religion, or a language it is simply an oppressive social category.  Blackness is an identity that can be plausibly argued, black people are people who have formed in a resistance to their oppression."
"If you abolish slavery, you abolish slave holders, in the same way if you abolish racial oppression, you abolish whiteness"
 
Professor Noel Ignatieff

It is literally impossible for you as a black person to hold the views of a white person because it would require some sort of bizarre reverse apartheid where blacks decided they were going to gang up on despite having inferior numbers and oppress white people and have the POWER to do so.  Given that Jews who are much more organized and wealthy couldn't pull this off (see Nakam aka Jewish Avengers who planned to murder 6 million Germans in revenege for Holocaust and failed miserably), I'd say that is impossible.

The idea this guy is trying to push is aren't we all like Liam Nesson.  Which is of course false, all whites might be, but almost no blacks are.  If most blacks were like Liam Nesson, slavery in America would have not lasted very long, because once white people raped, beat, tortured, pedophiled or brutalized them, the slaves would have picked up a lead pipe like Liam and bashed ANY white persons brains in, and there'd be very few white people left.

Part of the problem too here is black men's response to this.  Look at how many people are here saying Liam shouldn't have said this, rather than saying here is what we should do against the bastard and every bastard like him.
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#32
The bar has been set so low. You've decided to not murder someone based on nothing but the color of the skin. This is supposed to generate what exactly? Empathy, sympathy or whatever the fuck that has been lately decided to understand/normalize the psychology of the racist mind. For what, for managing to comprehend basic causation which took you a fucking week, no less?

What, exactly, will this persistent fetish of engaging with how racists think, add to debate? There is absolutely nothing to gain from this. He should've kept it himself and his therapist. I don't give a damn that he realized that it was wrong and even less so that it showed the naked truth that this happens in society. All it will do is generate emotional reaction on this mf and him alone, who gives a fuck about his epiphany?

That's why the only thing that genuinely pisses me off is how this neatly sits right next to the NYT giving Nazis a goddamn editorial of them doing groceries. Anything to give it a more human face while racism literally dehumanizes human beings which made it possible for Neeson to have thought like this. A deliberate vicious circle.

Where are the articles/editorials of white men and women who engage in antiracism and face hostilities from people and the government. You're lucky if that even gets a footnote. That's what helps the debate. Those are the only white people I want to see discussing racism along with black people with a similar set of mind. Not a back and forth on whether or not he evolved on the matter or a useless discussion on forgiveness. Stop worshiping celebrities, give unsung heroes a platform.
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#33
(02-06-2019, 09:32 AM)cumxplorer Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 04:44 AM)wildman99 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 03:12 AM)cumxplorer Wrote: Not to give Liam a pass, but what he said involved thoughts and a series of actions he took 20 plus years ago. He also talked about having to seek out guidance from a priest in order for him to calm his rage. Those who are ready to condemn the man to life for making these comments (like the folks in the many of the comments above) will never see it this way, but what the man did was bold, if not brazen, in that he acknowledged out loud a deep flaw that existed within him and what it took for him to move through it. I am not God nor am I someone who God deputized to throw stones of condemnation at the man, but let's be honest, Liam's sentiments are shared by many many people in this world. His comments further confirm that there exists an underlying current of Racism in this country, in this world, that is of the same power and magnitude as the power that runs through the electrical wires built into our walls. 

Those who are open to self-reflection, those who are willing to take responsibility, those who are willing to be accountable for their mistakes, those who make efforts to correct them, to share them with others are those who are uniquely equipped to make genuine strides towards changing this world for the better. 

Liam's thoughts and actions 20 years ago are a by product of the lessons he was taught, the experiences he had, and the experiences shared with him by those who are part of his inner circle - family, friends, neighborhood, culture, etc. 

While I have yet to hear/read the full comments and I choose not to judge Liam solely based on the snippets that are making the rounds, I am willing to bet that Liam's comments and the follow up (see GMA interview with RR) can do more to change the hearts and minds of those who think like him, those who behave like him, more than any comments coming from the tar and feather crowd. And, for me, that is the ultimate goal - less racism, less violence (not more) towards innocent people like the unwitting black men Liam tried, but failed to victimize way back when.  

Just imagine what an honest conversation (and by conversation I do not mean shouting match) from a place of empathy and open-mindedness can do to inspire change about thoughts, beliefs, biases and prejudices. Kudos to Imperius and others for making the attempt here in this thread. Random aside, but it seems that's what Badu was attempting to do in her initial comments about R. Kelly.

The problem is that we live more in a tar and feather world than we ever have. Most will take sides, the vitriol towards Liam will be thunderous, everyone will take refuge deep within their own echo chambers leaving those who think/thought like Liam more primed to learn a lesson different from the one that was availed to them.  Many of the comments on this thread thus far show show just how fruitless it would be for people like that to engage in such an open conversation. At best, walls and defenses would be drawn from the start, and, at worst, conversation would devolve into blaming, labeling, and name calling with comments from both sides falling in line with those found on storm-front.     

I know a black woman who was violently raped by a black man when she was young. The experience was so traumatic for her, so impactful to her that she has not able to to date black men since. Even more sadly, she was in a healthy relationship with black man at the time she was attacked and it fell a part even though he tried to be there for her in every phase of her recovery.  One can be quick to condemn her for this, a clear bias, but only she can walk in her shoes.

As am I sure some will try to point out, her experience and her reaction is apples and oranges to Liam's (in some ways), but the larger point is, trauma impacts everyone differently and more often than not in ways that trigger the worst in us.  Taking steps to move through those triggers without hurting others may feel impossible, but are doable. I choose to engage and challenge rather than condemn and dismiss.  

Tar and feather crowd, feel free to name call and shit on my comments in 3, 2, 1...
whether it was 20 years ago, or yesterday, doesn't matter. are we to believe that he's suddenly changed forever and would never think of harming an innocent black person again? there's no way i believe that. people don't change views that easily, especially on something as racist as that. to even have that thought process in the first place is inconceivable. an innocent black person shouldn't have to die because you're angry and want to take it out on someone. Agreed it's already bad enough they we have these dudes shooting up schools because they're mad because someone hurt their little feelings in class. Also agreed, though "these dudes" are not the only ones who commit violence because someone hurt their little feelings in class. The prisons of this world are full of such dudes and dudettes, and they come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. 

now take all the excuses you made for Liam Please, do share, what excuses do I make for Liam? and put a BLACK movie star's name in there. would you feel the same compassion or no? I'd have the same open mindedness that I have here. if denzel washington said some white person raped a family member and he wanted to kill any random white person, what would your reaction be? It depends on, in what context he said it as the words themselves don't live in a vacuum. the SHEER terror that most white people would feel about a black person saying that for EVERYONE to know would be felt WORLDWIDE. the same way that many people regardless of color are feeling about what Liam has said. there would be people calling the police demanding that denzel be investigated. white people who are angry at blacks and have a position of authority will do any and everything in their power to find, or create, dirt on you to ruin your life. Some would, I am sure, the same way that some want to condemn Liam today. Others would not. they would have denzel literally on his fucking knees BEGGING for the public to leave him alone. the backlash would be RELENTLESS and you know it. Probably would be. the same way it typically is for those who paint a whole group with the same brush but people, like you, are having a cow, There is no cow being had, none at all. I am simply saying what any psychology text book will point out - that change - can only come when the people committing that hurtful acts, the hurtful thoughts do the changing and that can only happen when they come to realize that change is necessary and that they, and the world, would benefit from their change and growth. Does that happen over night? Obviously not, but it does happen and has happened when someone who wants to change is shown something about themselves that they did not previously know or realize about themselves. Racial attitudes have changed over time in this country, whether you want to believe or accept it or not, and most of it has come when people are able to step into the shoes of someone else, see things from the POV of those that they victimize. To give Liam, or Denzel, or whomever, the benefit of the doubt (based on my understanding of all of Liam's statements regarding his story within the context that he share it affords people the opportunity to see the error of the things they do, the statements they make, not because someone else wants name call them for said statements. Often, the name calling only serves to make the name caller feel better, but the unintended results are that people are put on the defensive, shamed into silence which only makes change harder and less likely. The true racists/ other -ists in this world want people like Liam to keep his mouth shut more those who are criticizing him - assuming the point and context of his story is true - because such comments disarm and provide opportunities for people to see the error of their own ways much in the same way many people changed their POV about black people and racism because they saw first hand what their behavior and statements look like.  because liam is being criticized with "words" via those on social media?! lol. bro, i can't even.. your precious liam will be fine.. Again, it's not about Liam, it's about changing the behaviors of those who come after Liam he won't be effected by this because he's a privileged white male. if he didn't want to be criticized, he should have kept his arrogant words to himself. Again, you miss my point, it's not about the criticism, let the criticism rain down on Liam. It is more than understandable it's about  this dude really wants people to praise him for NOT killing an innocent black man.. AND there are actually people doing it, like YOU.. smh. I am not praising Liam, nor am I defending him. I am simply pointing out the opportunity that is availed to the rest of humanity in a moment such as this one. 

lol. you already knew you were going to get criticized for bringing up that black woman supposedly being raped. whenever people, like you, defend racists, they pull out ALL the stops. making up stories about imaginary black friends is always NUMBER 1 on the list.. simply put, i don't believe you. that story is fiction and you made it up on the fly because you thought it would fit well with your narrative. choose to believe what you'd like - though it seems your dismissal and disbelief are there to serve your narrative and point of view.  
no black woman that i know that has been abused/raped by a fellow black man have been afraid of other black men. Reread what I said - no mention of her being afraid of other black men, heck she has plenty of black friends, what I said what was that she has not been able to date another black man since. she might have trouble with intimacy and trusting future mates but she's not going to be automatically afraid of ALL black men. why would she? that type of stuff is not ingrained in us. even black women that date white dudes exclusively don't say stupid shit like that. REREAD what I said. so try again on the fake story, bro. I wish it were false, not because it fits your/mine/ or anyone's narrative, but because I [b]genuinely care about my friend's health and wellbeing, ...bro[/b]

i have tried hard to put myself in the shoes of people like you. Your statements overall and just above about the "fake" story suggests otherwise i see all these people who make excuses for racism What excuses are being made about the dude's racism? and i try my hardest to relate and see through their eyes. I encourage you to try harder, but perhaps without the emotion and more from an effort of objectivity  but, when i delve deeper, there never seems to be a valid reason other than they must get some sort of "high" off defending evil. his words were reprehensible and he deserves the criticism. period. end of story. You know nothing about me. Though I am here if you would like to ask and not assume or project.  

there is no "tar and feather' crowd. just people sharing their opinions. I'll take that - "Tar and feather" was an unfortunate choice of words as it created room for people such as yourself to completely misread and misinterpret my thoughts.  just because you might not like what they have to say here, and elsewhere on the internet, doesn't make your false labels credible.  they have a right to their opinions just like you do. but, it's obvious that you can't respect their voices. do tell, how is it so obvious that I don't respect their voices? you claim that you don't want to condemn and dismiss but that's EXACTLY what you're doing to those criticizing liam's reckless words. where do I condemn and dismiss them? I only point out that such statements instigate defensiveness which only make it harder for self-reflection to occur also, name-calling is not allowed on this board so why are you suggesting such? Sellouts, uncle toms, apologists are all names that posts here have used to describe people who may not agree with their point of view perhaps you're trolling for attention in hopes of that? Smile No trolling here, as I did not condemn anyone for their sentiments - though I can see how you clearly see differently due my use of  "tar and feather" if anyone should be accused of name-calling, it's you for condemning people on the internet as a so-called "tar and feather crowd" for DARING to criticize a man that admitted to looking for a black man, to provoke, and KILL, for an ENTIRE WEEK.  how you can make excuses for that is beyond me.. but, hey, your opinion should count to, even if it does suck. Again, where do I condemn the critics save for the tar and feather term which was used as a shortcut to point out how such criticisms put people on a defensive and, thus, make it harder for them to see the opportunity that available to challenge their own thingking and point of view. There are no excuses made for the man's comments. any attempt to see otherwise is revisionist history.   
bro, i HAVE to give it to you.. that was a VERY interesting way to answer a reply. lol. 

open-minded people don't defend racists. are you claiming to be "open-minded' after your defense of liam? dude, they should have read your post on good morning america. i'm sure he would have appreciated it a lot. that's how far up his ass you are. you should be his publicist. lol

sigh.. are we really going the "psychology" route? look, this isn't rocket science. liam said some fucked up, racist shit. you defended him. what else is there to say? i don't respect anyone who would do that. because, for one thing, if any black movie star were to confess like liam did, you know damn well that all hell would break loose. the fact that you don't understand that, means you're just like the others that i put in the "avoid at all costs" category of life. there is no talking to people like you because you lack empathy for others. you make stupid excuses for behavior that you KNOW that you would never tolerate from a black person. i'm not fooled by your "we are the world" shit. 

again, i don't believe one word you said about your imaginary black friend. you made it up plain and simple. if there were any doubts, your latest reply to me further confirmed my skepticism. thanks for that Smile 
let's leave that alone because rape is a very serious thing. you bringing that up was already a pretty LOW thing for you to do anyway. sharing someone's personal pain to prove some stupid point in defense of a mediocre actor's racism, is pretty FUCKED UP.  thankfully, it was pretty obvious that the story wasn't true though. because i'd hate to be her and have a "friend" like you. smh. 

how can anyone misinterpret "tar and feather"? LOL! you said what you said, bro. why am i the bad guy for pointing that out? there was no "misreading" or "misinterpreting". also, you clearly said that you prefer not to "condemn" others. describing people who might say things that you don't like as a apart of some "tar and feather crowd", sure sounds like condemning to me. so it looks like i uncovered some hypocrisy on your part and now you're backtracking. don't try to shift blame to me for you supposedly have a bad choice of words! what the hell?! but what did i expect from someone who defends racism though. you do realize that many hardcore racists actually blame their victims for making them HATE, don't you? smh.

i tried to hurry this along and make this as short as possible but it's still too much. i really didn't want to waste that much time further talking about this with you. i said what i said. you said what you said.. let's just leave it at that. i have no interest in going back and forth with you. our thought processes don't mesh well together. it happens. we don't all have to agree with each other. we express our opinons and move on. that's it.
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#34
(02-06-2019, 11:22 AM)Ipay4 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 02:27 AM)wildman99 Wrote:
(02-05-2019, 03:27 PM)imperiusrex Wrote:
(02-05-2019, 02:32 PM)blackalpha Wrote:
(02-05-2019, 02:16 PM)imperiusrex Wrote: Really, you don't know any black people who hate all white people? I do, I surely do.

I know some black people who would Thanos finger snap the entire white race if they could. And in their case I understand it; systemic oppression will do that.

As to my own bias, I'm not a big fan of cops, period- don't know too many I'd embrace warmly and I'm fully aware that's a bias on my part. I know they're not all bad, but I won't trust a single cop for a second.- I always treat them with the wary eye of an opponent, even as I extend them their professional respect. 

And yes it's different than race; no situation is completely analogous- it's not the exact same situation but it's comparable in that my experience and my history and those I know have had issue with cops.- maybe only one or two experiences that have in the long term changed my overall perception. There are many I'd smack as soon as look at them given their attitude in dealing with the public, even as I know that much of it is psychology (erroneously applied) directed to control a situation through forceful words and actions.

But people say and do stupid shit and Liam Neeson said some stupid shit so boycott his movies, write petitions to movie studios to not cast him anymore, call him a racist piece of shit, say fuck you if you see him in the street, but let's not act like he's so completely removed from the rest of society in that he allows his biases to influence how he view entire groups of people.

Also your sister saying 80% of rape allegations are false?? You actually believe that? Because virtually every modern study that isn't put out by some conspiracy group would turn that number around. A major peer reviewed study that has been quoted frequently says that more likely only 2-10 % of rape accusations are false. I guess your sister was hanging around with some fickle hoes, huh?  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21164210

Look at you trying to reason with the devils. This guy felt that way because he knew he could kill a black person and claim self defense. He said he tried provoking black people so he could kill them. It's timely how this is on Trayvon Martin's 24th birthday. The man that murdered him said he was looking to start shit like this old fucker.

I'm not trying to reason with the devil; but let's not be silly. If you don't have a black relative who has said he or she hates all white people then you live with Mr. Drummond and you are adopted and it takes Diff'rent Strokes to move the world, my friend...

Again, Neeson had a bias against all black people; that makes him a terrible human being in his treatment of black people. And again I advocated taking every step you could to reduce his Hollywood career to ruins- he was a stupid mother fucker.

That said, does that make him alone in the universe? Absolutely not. Many people have done terrible things to other people out of race and hate and viewpoints that were ridiculous and based on a small set of experiences. I've had similar feelings at time and have to fight them because I know they are a bias and if you are more enlightened than me then great, but I can't act like I haven't been an asshole of a human being myself at times. 

I'm not saying it's completely comparable but I understand the genesis of it.
i don't understand the point of your argument here. of course there are black people who hate white people. who said that there wasn't? but how many of them are out here openly admitting to wanting to harm innocent whites just because another white person did something bad? i assure you that number is few and far between. even if it wasn't, all you're doing is DEFLECTING. the issue at hand is a fucking movie star, who has millions of fans, saying dumb, racist shit like that. imagine if denzel washington, or some other black star, said that. their career would be fucking destroyed! but why do i have a feeling that this liam guy won't be majorly effected by his "confession" at all? THAT's the problem right there. certain people can do and say shit with impunity. that shit is maddening.

i want to say, as respectfully as i can, that people like you annoy me. i think you purposely entered this conversation with this "well, everyone does it, so why are you acting outraged about one person" nonsense to deflect. while i try my best to listen to dissenting voices, all the stuff you're saying is a given, so it doesn't even need to be said. i don't think that anyone involved in this thread is claiming to be perfect. we're venting about an popular movie star being arrogant enough to THINK he can say that shit on ANY public platform. you're trying to steer the conversation into some "but we've all been assholes" shit. wow, you're so enlightening. thank you so much. smh.

let me do some steering of my own.. 

my experiences with white people growing up in the south have been HORRIBLE. those incidents are in the high HUNDREDS. i'm deeply scarred forever. because of that, do i hate them all? no. do i trust them? most of them..NO! do i want to harm/kill innocent white people for the heinous actions of the others against me and my family? NO! now let's FLIP THE SWITCH. i have been on white supremacist forums where some idiot will say he hates black people because one 'yelled" at him.. one cut him off in traffic.. one black person looked at him in an angry way.. one dated a girl he liked, etc.. just STUPID, mundane shit that normal, SANE people should be able to just brush off their backs and move on. but a lot of them literally take one or two experiences with us, and turn it into "all blacks are bad and deserve to die" type of shit. smh. i mostly laugh the shit off and shake my head when i witness their racist bullshit online and offline. but you know what? that's our problem right there! a lot of blacks love to laugh shit off. but these racist people are DEAD SERIOUS. they want us to die off the planet simply for something we have no control over, our BLACK skin. i've never understood that shit. smh. 
yeah, i might not trust most but i solve that by limiting my interactions with them(which is next to impossible in certain areas). i don't go out of my way to HARASS white people or PROVOKE them, hoping some altercation will happen, so i can have an excuse to KILL them. even with all my bad experiences with them, I have NEVER thought that way.. and i'll bet MY ENTIRE LIFE, that mostly ALL black people haven't either. we're just not built like that. for some reason, we are the most FORGIVING people on this earth! we just want to be left alone and live our life in peace. but OTHERS can't help fucking with us. it's like it's built in their DNA or something. the shit is crazy..

Nail meet hammer.  Dead on. Cool
I think the reason why others enjoy fucking with us, is because they can't stand to see us happy.  Probably because they hate their own pathetic lives.
If black people were as racist as white people, none of us would be in America, because when whites came to Africa to enslave blacks they would have been murdered on sight.

"Whiteness is an identity that arises entirely out of oppression.  Whiteness is not a culture, it is not a religion, or a language it is simply an oppressive social category.  Blackness is an identity that can be plausibly argued, black people are people who have formed in a resistance to their oppression."
"If you abolish slavery, you abolish slave holders, in the same way if you abolish racial oppression, you abolish whiteness"
 
Professor Noel Ignatieff

It is literally impossible for you as a black person to hold the views of a white person because it would require some sort of bizarre reverse apartheid where blacks decided they were going to gang up on despite having inferior numbers and oppress white people and have the POWER to do so.  Given that Jews who are much more organized and wealthy couldn't pull this off (see Nakam aka Jewish Avengers who planned to murder 6 million Germans in revenege for Holocaust and failed miserably), I'd say that is impossible.

The idea this guy is trying to push is aren't we all like Liam Nesson.  Which is of course false, all whites might be, but almost no blacks are.  If most blacks were like Liam Nesson, slavery in America would have not lasted very long, because once white people raped, beat, tortured, pedophiled or brutalized them, the slaves would have picked up a lead pipe like Liam and bashed ANY white persons brains in, and there'd be very few white people left.

Part of the problem too here is black men's response to this.  Look at how many people are here saying Liam shouldn't have said this, rather than saying here is what we should do against the bastard and every bastard like him.
FACTS. ALL OF THAT.

i gotta give you a quick shout-out, and show gratitude, because you hit me with some serious knowledge today. i wasn't aware about the so-called "jewish avengers". i'm researching/reading that right now as we speak. thanks.
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#35
Didn't he, more or less, say that he was in the wrong for thinking like that, and that he sees the social climate today and understands that it's the same primal instincts driving it. Not to mention, this was decades ago  right? 

I think it's important to have white people like Liam Neeson and Derek Black come out and address that this kind of behavior is still relevant and that people still slip into it.  I don't think crucifying him now does any good. Although, I'm partially glad the initial response isn't the typical glorifying him for turning a new leaf and being good normal.

Still, some of ya'll are making this out to be like he was going to kill the first black person he saw. He was waiting for one to give him a reason to. And to be honest, he was probably just all talk. I know niggas in my neighborhood that jump and beat the shit out of white and asian people walking through just because they're white or asian sometimes. And it's one of the better neighborhoods. You're not gonna tell me SOME of these same niggas wouldn't kill some random white people because some other white person fucked with fam. Ya'll are vastly underestimating the amorality of some people.

But to clarify, I do agree that the average, semi educated black person that isn't involved in any illegal shit, probably isn't going to go full Neeson, let alone go about waiting to do something general against all white people.  I DO think the thought would still be there. It's not a good analogy. White people have an irrational fear of black men stealing/raping women. Black men don't really even think of that because white men generally don't even have much attraction black women.  

Honestly, I was avoiding this topic because it grates me. I can understand how a white person falls into this line of thinking. But why should I? I shouldn't be able to, it should be unthinkable.  Pisses me off.
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#36
(02-06-2019, 09:47 AM)snakebyte666 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 09:27 AM)wildman99 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 08:49 AM)snakebyte666 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 02:41 AM)wildman99 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 01:49 AM)snakebyte666 Wrote: I'd rather have an honest guy who had racist thoughts in his past and admits it now than a guy who is a closet racist.
And I totally agree, even here are so many guys that seem to hate all whites. Hypocracy at its finest.
nah i think it's just that most white people can't stand to read/hear ANY criticism about their group. i guarantee that you won't hear any say "hypocrisy at its finest" when there are people criticizing blacks Smile  isn't that right? lol. 

if you're a good person, nothing said should effect you in any way. i'm calling out the bad guys only. it's not "all".

Do you know most white people? Or most black people? I can assure you that were I live (not in the US) there are lots of white people shouting "racism" way before any black would. They are true "white knights" Big Grin
none of us know "most" white or black people. we can only go by personal experiences. from MY experiences in the south here in the U.S., white people will fight tooth and nail to defend other whites accused of racism. they make up all kinds of excuses even when the evidence is staring them right in the face.. i try my best not to say "all" white people to anything.. but, boy oh boy, the people here make it really hard not to. "most" is my description these days.

it seems to me that you're annoyed with those in your country who supposedly shout "racism" at everything. i'm not sure if that means they're good people or not. i feel like everyone should confront racism at every turn. to combat this in the united states, we will definitely need white allies. but most are too lazy to do anything. so maybe your country's people have the right idea? Smile
It depends. When people start seeing racism in the most innocent things it's not the right idea anymore. Just like parts of feminism or other things.
If someone tells a joke about blacks and a white person shouts racism while I find it innocent and actually funny, then yes, it does annoy me. You know why? Because whites want to define what's racist and what not towards a group they are no part of. They can start their outrage to support blacks that say something is racist but they should shut the fuck up when even blacks don't mind. So in general i hate white knights and social justice warriors since at the end of the day they just do it to feel good.
i agree with you somewhat. but certain things that people think are "innocent", might not be that way to another person. so do we just disregard that person's feelings, just because we don't see it as a big deal? even if they're not apart of that particular racial group, do we hear them out or do we automatically dismiss their feelings because the black person says that they're ok with whatever? hmm.. that's a tricky one. me personally, i would still want to hear what the person has to say about it. but, yes, it 

just because a black person claims to not be offended by something that the "white knights" call out, doesn't mean that that he/she really feel that way. many just say they're cool with things, just to keep the peace and not ruin the vibe. i mean, who really wants to be THAT person who "complains" about race all the time? do you know how tiring it would be to call out EVERY SINGLE instance of racism? it's already draining enough just to EXPERIENCE it.. keep that in mind the next time you think a black person is really cool with some racially insensitive comment or "joke"  watch their body language. it might tell an entirely different story Smile 

as for the "white knights", and "social justice warriors" that annoy you in your country, i think it's just a case of people meaning well and going a little overboard. cut them a little slack. lol. as long as they're not being attention whores and wanting unnecessary accolades for being a decent human being, then i see no problem with them sticking up for whomever to "feel good". why wouldn't they want to feel that way if he/she is a genuine person who cares, and respects, other races and cultures? you deserve to feel good because you ARE a good person if you can go to bat for others. i have no problem with that whatsoever.

it IS really annoying for whites to define what's racist and what's not. that's my biggest pet peeve here in america. i am quick to tell someone to SHUT THE FUCK UP to their face, if they attempt to minimize my, or someone else's, pain as it pertains to racism. you can't tell others how to feel or how to react. i don't mind others chiming in if its for support and encouragement. anything other than that, back the fuck away from me. lol.
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#37
(02-06-2019, 04:25 PM)wildman99 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 09:32 AM)cumxplorer Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 04:44 AM)wildman99 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 03:12 AM)cumxplorer Wrote: Not to give Liam a pass, but what he said involved thoughts and a series of actions he took 20 plus years ago. He also talked about having to seek out guidance from a priest in order for him to calm his rage. Those who are ready to condemn the man to life for making these comments (like the folks in the many of the comments above) will never see it this way, but what the man did was bold, if not brazen, in that he acknowledged out loud a deep flaw that existed within him and what it took for him to move through it. I am not God nor am I someone who God deputized to throw stones of condemnation at the man, but let's be honest, Liam's sentiments are shared by many many people in this world. His comments further confirm that there exists an underlying current of Racism in this country, in this world, that is of the same power and magnitude as the power that runs through the electrical wires built into our walls. 

Those who are open to self-reflection, those who are willing to take responsibility, those who are willing to be accountable for their mistakes, those who make efforts to correct them, to share them with others are those who are uniquely equipped to make genuine strides towards changing this world for the better. 

Liam's thoughts and actions 20 years ago are a by product of the lessons he was taught, the experiences he had, and the experiences shared with him by those who are part of his inner circle - family, friends, neighborhood, culture, etc. 

While I have yet to hear/read the full comments and I choose not to judge Liam solely based on the snippets that are making the rounds, I am willing to bet that Liam's comments and the follow up (see GMA interview with RR) can do more to change the hearts and minds of those who think like him, those who behave like him, more than any comments coming from the tar and feather crowd. And, for me, that is the ultimate goal - less racism, less violence (not more) towards innocent people like the unwitting black men Liam tried, but failed to victimize way back when.  

Just imagine what an honest conversation (and by conversation I do not mean shouting match) from a place of empathy and open-mindedness can do to inspire change about thoughts, beliefs, biases and prejudices. Kudos to Imperius and others for making the attempt here in this thread. Random aside, but it seems that's what Badu was attempting to do in her initial comments about R. Kelly.

The problem is that we live more in a tar and feather world than we ever have. Most will take sides, the vitriol towards Liam will be thunderous, everyone will take refuge deep within their own echo chambers leaving those who think/thought like Liam more primed to learn a lesson different from the one that was availed to them.  Many of the comments on this thread thus far show show just how fruitless it would be for people like that to engage in such an open conversation. At best, walls and defenses would be drawn from the start, and, at worst, conversation would devolve into blaming, labeling, and name calling with comments from both sides falling in line with those found on storm-front.     

I know a black woman who was violently raped by a black man when she was young. The experience was so traumatic for her, so impactful to her that she has not able to to date black men since. Even more sadly, she was in a healthy relationship with black man at the time she was attacked and it fell a part even though he tried to be there for her in every phase of her recovery.  One can be quick to condemn her for this, a clear bias, but only she can walk in her shoes.

As am I sure some will try to point out, her experience and her reaction is apples and oranges to Liam's (in some ways), but the larger point is, trauma impacts everyone differently and more often than not in ways that trigger the worst in us.  Taking steps to move through those triggers without hurting others may feel impossible, but are doable. I choose to engage and challenge rather than condemn and dismiss.  

Tar and feather crowd, feel free to name call and shit on my comments in 3, 2, 1...
whether it was 20 years ago, or yesterday, doesn't matter. are we to believe that he's suddenly changed forever and would never think of harming an innocent black person again? there's no way i believe that. people don't change views that easily, especially on something as racist as that. to even have that thought process in the first place is inconceivable. an innocent black person shouldn't have to die because you're angry and want to take it out on someone. Agreed it's already bad enough they we have these dudes shooting up schools because they're mad because someone hurt their little feelings in class. Also agreed, though "these dudes" are not the only ones who commit violence because someone hurt their little feelings in class. The prisons of this world are full of such dudes and dudettes, and they come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. 

now take all the excuses you made for Liam Please, do share, what excuses do I make for Liam? and put a BLACK movie star's name in there. would you feel the same compassion or no? I'd have the same open mindedness that I have here. if denzel washington said some white person raped a family member and he wanted to kill any random white person, what would your reaction be? It depends on, in what context he said it as the words themselves don't live in a vacuum. the SHEER terror that most white people would feel about a black person saying that for EVERYONE to know would be felt WORLDWIDE. the same way that many people regardless of color are feeling about what Liam has said. there would be people calling the police demanding that denzel be investigated. white people who are angry at blacks and have a position of authority will do any and everything in their power to find, or create, dirt on you to ruin your life. Some would, I am sure, the same way that some want to condemn Liam today. Others would not. they would have denzel literally on his fucking knees BEGGING for the public to leave him alone. the backlash would be RELENTLESS and you know it. Probably would be. the same way it typically is for those who paint a whole group with the same brush but people, like you, are having a cow, There is no cow being had, none at all. I am simply saying what any psychology text book will point out - that change - can only come when the people committing that hurtful acts, the hurtful thoughts do the changing and that can only happen when they come to realize that change is necessary and that they, and the world, would benefit from their change and growth. Does that happen over night? Obviously not, but it does happen and has happened when someone who wants to change is shown something about themselves that they did not previously know or realize about themselves. Racial attitudes have changed over time in this country, whether you want to believe or accept it or not, and most of it has come when people are able to step into the shoes of someone else, see things from the POV of those that they victimize. To give Liam, or Denzel, or whomever, the benefit of the doubt (based on my understanding of all of Liam's statements regarding his story within the context that he share it affords people the opportunity to see the error of the things they do, the statements they make, not because someone else wants name call them for said statements. Often, the name calling only serves to make the name caller feel better, but the unintended results are that people are put on the defensive, shamed into silence which only makes change harder and less likely. The true racists/ other -ists in this world want people like Liam to keep his mouth shut more those who are criticizing him - assuming the point and context of his story is true - because such comments disarm and provide opportunities for people to see the error of their own ways much in the same way many people changed their POV about black people and racism because they saw first hand what their behavior and statements look like.  because liam is being criticized with "words" via those on social media?! lol. bro, i can't even.. your precious liam will be fine.. Again, it's not about Liam, it's about changing the behaviors of those who come after Liam he won't be effected by this because he's a privileged white male. if he didn't want to be criticized, he should have kept his arrogant words to himself. Again, you miss my point, it's not about the criticism, let the criticism rain down on Liam. It is more than understandable it's about  this dude really wants people to praise him for NOT killing an innocent black man.. AND there are actually people doing it, like YOU.. smh. I am not praising Liam, nor am I defending him. I am simply pointing out the opportunity that is availed to the rest of humanity in a moment such as this one. 

lol. you already knew you were going to get criticized for bringing up that black woman supposedly being raped. whenever people, like you, defend racists, they pull out ALL the stops. making up stories about imaginary black friends is always NUMBER 1 on the list.. simply put, i don't believe you. that story is fiction and you made it up on the fly because you thought it would fit well with your narrative. choose to believe what you'd like - though it seems your dismissal and disbelief are there to serve your narrative and point of view.  
no black woman that i know that has been abused/raped by a fellow black man have been afraid of other black men. Reread what I said - no mention of her being afraid of other black men, heck she has plenty of black friends, what I said what was that she has not been able to date another black man since. she might have trouble with intimacy and trusting future mates but she's not going to be automatically afraid of ALL black men. why would she? that type of stuff is not ingrained in us. even black women that date white dudes exclusively don't say stupid shit like that. REREAD what I said. so try again on the fake story, bro. I wish it were false, not because it fits your/mine/ or anyone's narrative, but because I [b]genuinely care about my friend's health and wellbeing, ...bro[/b]

i have tried hard to put myself in the shoes of people like you. Your statements overall and just above about the "fake" story suggests otherwise i see all these people who make excuses for racism What excuses are being made about the dude's racism? and i try my hardest to relate and see through their eyes. I encourage you to try harder, but perhaps without the emotion and more from an effort of objectivity  but, when i delve deeper, there never seems to be a valid reason other than they must get some sort of "high" off defending evil. his words were reprehensible and he deserves the criticism. period. end of story. You know nothing about me. Though I am here if you would like to ask and not assume or project.  

there is no "tar and feather' crowd. just people sharing their opinions. I'll take that - "Tar and feather" was an unfortunate choice of words as it created room for people such as yourself to completely misread and misinterpret my thoughts.  just because you might not like what they have to say here, and elsewhere on the internet, doesn't make your false labels credible.  they have a right to their opinions just like you do. but, it's obvious that you can't respect their voices. do tell, how is it so obvious that I don't respect their voices? you claim that you don't want to condemn and dismiss but that's EXACTLY what you're doing to those criticizing liam's reckless words. where do I condemn and dismiss them? I only point out that such statements instigate defensiveness which only make it harder for self-reflection to occur also, name-calling is not allowed on this board so why are you suggesting such? Sellouts, uncle toms, apologists are all names that posts here have used to describe people who may not agree with their point of view perhaps you're trolling for attention in hopes of that? Smile No trolling here, as I did not condemn anyone for their sentiments - though I can see how you clearly see differently due my use of  "tar and feather" if anyone should be accused of name-calling, it's you for condemning people on the internet as a so-called "tar and feather crowd" for DARING to criticize a man that admitted to looking for a black man, to provoke, and KILL, for an ENTIRE WEEK.  how you can make excuses for that is beyond me.. but, hey, your opinion should count to, even if it does suck. Again, where do I condemn the critics save for the tar and feather term which was used as a shortcut to point out how such criticisms put people on a defensive and, thus, make it harder for them to see the opportunity that available to challenge their own thingking and point of view. There are no excuses made for the man's comments. any attempt to see otherwise is revisionist history.   
bro, i HAVE to give it to you.. that was a VERY interesting way to answer a reply. lol. 

open-minded people don't defend racists. are you claiming to be "open-minded' after your defense of liam? dude, they should have read your post on good morning america. i'm sure he would have appreciated it a lot. that's how far up his ass you are. you should be his publicist. lol

sigh.. are we really going the "psychology" route? look, this isn't rocket science. liam said some fucked up, racist shit. you defended him. what else is there to say? i don't respect anyone who would do that. because, for one thing, if any black movie star were to confess like liam did, you know damn well that all hell would break loose. the fact that you don't understand that, means you're just like the others that i put in the "avoid at all costs" category of life. there is no talking to people like you because you lack empathy for others. you make stupid excuses for behavior that you KNOW that you would never tolerate from a black person. i'm not fooled by your "we are the world" shit. 

again, i don't believe one word you said about your imaginary black friend. you made it up plain and simple. if there were any doubts, your latest reply to me further confirmed my skepticism. thanks for that Smile 
let's leave that alone because rape is a very serious thing. you bringing that up was already a pretty LOW thing for you to do anyway. sharing someone's personal pain to prove some stupid point in defense of a mediocre actor's racism, is pretty FUCKED UP.  thankfully, it was pretty obvious that the story wasn't true though. because i'd hate to be her and have a "friend" like you. smh. 

how can anyone misinterpret "tar and feather"? LOL! you said what you said, bro. why am i the bad guy for pointing that out? there was no "misreading" or "misinterpreting". also, you clearly said that you prefer not to "condemn" others. describing people who might say things that you don't like as a apart of some "tar and feather crowd", sure sounds like condemning to me. so it looks like i uncovered some hypocrisy on your part and now you're backtracking. don't try to shift blame to me for you supposedly have a bad choice of words! what the hell?! but what did i expect from someone who defends racism though. you do realize that many hardcore racists actually blame their victims for making them HATE, don't you? smh.

i tried to hurry this along and make this as short as possible but it's still too much. i really didn't want to waste that much time further talking about this with you. i said what i said. you said what you said.. let's just leave it at that. i have no interest in going back and forth with you. our thought processes don't mesh well together. it happens. we don't all have to agree with each other. we express our opinons and move on. that's it.

Pretty good, bro - make your case, support your arguments in conjecture, tell me what I am thinking, what I believe, what I've made up and declare your case made - once more conversation over. 

Well done. 

There are those who will read my comments the way they are written (flaws and all) and those who will read them the way that you read them. Such is life. 

Happy Trails
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#38
(02-06-2019, 11:34 AM)wd40isabadmf Wrote: The bar has been set so low. You've decided to not murder someone based on nothing but the color of the skin. This is supposed to generate what exactly? Empathy, sympathy or whatever the fuck that has been lately decided to understand/normalize the psychology of the racist mind. For what, for managing to comprehend basic causation which took you a fucking week, no less?

What, exactly, will this persistent fetish of engaging with how racists think, add to debate? There is absolutely nothing to gain from this. He should've kept it himself and his therapist. I don't give a damn that he realized that it was wrong and even less so that it showed the naked truth that this happens in society. All it will do is generate emotional reaction on this mf and him alone, who gives a fuck about his epiphany?

That's why the only thing that genuinely pisses me off is how this neatly sits right next to the NYT giving Nazis a goddamn editorial of them doing groceries. Anything to give it a more human face while racism literally dehumanizes human beings which made it possible for Neeson to have thought like this. A deliberate vicious circle.

Where are the articles/editorials of white men and women who engage in antiracism and face hostilities from people and the government. You're lucky if that even gets a footnote. That's what helps the debate. Those are the only white people I want to see discussing racism along with black people with a similar set of mind. Not a back and forth on whether or not he evolved on the matter or a useless discussion on forgiveness. Stop worshiping celebrities, give unsung heroes a platform.
wonderfully put.. racists should be shunned and dehumanized, not be given public platforms to express how "sorry" they are, or how they're not racist because they have black friends. smh. the media will interview a person who should be considered a "villain" and switch the narrative to make the racist appear as a "victim". my personal favorite is when they claim that the racist person/celeb has been getting "death threats" on social media. boom! instant victim! smh.

give this man a standing ovation! you deserve it, bro! why is there no emoji for that. lol. anyway.. i agree a MILLION percent with your desire to have articles/editorials of whites engaging in anti-racism and the hostilities they face. i am not blind to this. in the racist south, i've witnessed firsthand the vitriol that some faced when standing up against their own bigoted families. they are literally terrorized a lot of times. do i have compassion for them? honestly, NOT REALLY. i say that because of my own horrible experiences. i became numb to others' pain a long time ago because of the unprovoked pain inflicted on me and my family.  nevertheless i would still be open to reading/hearing the stories of anti-racists. i share your sentiment that they are the only ones worth giving attention to. but, sadly, that will NEVER happen.
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#39
Fuck this dude! Fuck him Micheal Richards, Eastwood, Woods all these bastards that are rich and just are down right hateful. If any African-Americans support anything he does from this point forward then you are just a tool and a troll and a hater of your own peeps.

I work everyday, pay taxes, mind my own business and support my country......but I don't deserve to be thought of as something that is killed like an animal because some one is mad at a rule breaker that should do his\her time for any wrong doing and do not think a whole fucking race is bad...because of one.

He will never get a dime of my money or my time. Bastards revel themselves and Kap, can;t get a job!!!!
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#40
(02-06-2019, 07:59 PM)cumxplorer Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 04:25 PM)wildman99 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 09:32 AM)cumxplorer Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 04:44 AM)wildman99 Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 03:12 AM)cumxplorer Wrote: Not to give Liam a pass, but what he said involved thoughts and a series of actions he took 20 plus years ago. He also talked about having to seek out guidance from a priest in order for him to calm his rage. Those who are ready to condemn the man to life for making these comments (like the folks in the many of the comments above) will never see it this way, but what the man did was bold, if not brazen, in that he acknowledged out loud a deep flaw that existed within him and what it took for him to move through it. I am not God nor am I someone who God deputized to throw stones of condemnation at the man, but let's be honest, Liam's sentiments are shared by many many people in this world. His comments further confirm that there exists an underlying current of Racism in this country, in this world, that is of the same power and magnitude as the power that runs through the electrical wires built into our walls. 

Those who are open to self-reflection, those who are willing to take responsibility, those who are willing to be accountable for their mistakes, those who make efforts to correct them, to share them with others are those who are uniquely equipped to make genuine strides towards changing this world for the better. 

Liam's thoughts and actions 20 years ago are a by product of the lessons he was taught, the experiences he had, and the experiences shared with him by those who are part of his inner circle - family, friends, neighborhood, culture, etc. 

While I have yet to hear/read the full comments and I choose not to judge Liam solely based on the snippets that are making the rounds, I am willing to bet that Liam's comments and the follow up (see GMA interview with RR) can do more to change the hearts and minds of those who think like him, those who behave like him, more than any comments coming from the tar and feather crowd. And, for me, that is the ultimate goal - less racism, less violence (not more) towards innocent people like the unwitting black men Liam tried, but failed to victimize way back when.  

Just imagine what an honest conversation (and by conversation I do not mean shouting match) from a place of empathy and open-mindedness can do to inspire change about thoughts, beliefs, biases and prejudices. Kudos to Imperius and others for making the attempt here in this thread. Random aside, but it seems that's what Badu was attempting to do in her initial comments about R. Kelly.

The problem is that we live more in a tar and feather world than we ever have. Most will take sides, the vitriol towards Liam will be thunderous, everyone will take refuge deep within their own echo chambers leaving those who think/thought like Liam more primed to learn a lesson different from the one that was availed to them.  Many of the comments on this thread thus far show show just how fruitless it would be for people like that to engage in such an open conversation. At best, walls and defenses would be drawn from the start, and, at worst, conversation would devolve into blaming, labeling, and name calling with comments from both sides falling in line with those found on storm-front.     

I know a black woman who was violently raped by a black man when she was young. The experience was so traumatic for her, so impactful to her that she has not able to to date black men since. Even more sadly, she was in a healthy relationship with black man at the time she was attacked and it fell a part even though he tried to be there for her in every phase of her recovery.  One can be quick to condemn her for this, a clear bias, but only she can walk in her shoes.

As am I sure some will try to point out, her experience and her reaction is apples and oranges to Liam's (in some ways), but the larger point is, trauma impacts everyone differently and more often than not in ways that trigger the worst in us.  Taking steps to move through those triggers without hurting others may feel impossible, but are doable. I choose to engage and challenge rather than condemn and dismiss.  

Tar and feather crowd, feel free to name call and shit on my comments in 3, 2, 1...
whether it was 20 years ago, or yesterday, doesn't matter. are we to believe that he's suddenly changed forever and would never think of harming an innocent black person again? there's no way i believe that. people don't change views that easily, especially on something as racist as that. to even have that thought process in the first place is inconceivable. an innocent black person shouldn't have to die because you're angry and want to take it out on someone. Agreed it's already bad enough they we have these dudes shooting up schools because they're mad because someone hurt their little feelings in class. Also agreed, though "these dudes" are not the only ones who commit violence because someone hurt their little feelings in class. The prisons of this world are full of such dudes and dudettes, and they come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. 

now take all the excuses you made for Liam Please, do share, what excuses do I make for Liam? and put a BLACK movie star's name in there. would you feel the same compassion or no? I'd have the same open mindedness that I have here. if denzel washington said some white person raped a family member and he wanted to kill any random white person, what would your reaction be? It depends on, in what context he said it as the words themselves don't live in a vacuum. the SHEER terror that most white people would feel about a black person saying that for EVERYONE to know would be felt WORLDWIDE. the same way that many people regardless of color are feeling about what Liam has said. there would be people calling the police demanding that denzel be investigated. white people who are angry at blacks and have a position of authority will do any and everything in their power to find, or create, dirt on you to ruin your life. Some would, I am sure, the same way that some want to condemn Liam today. Others would not. they would have denzel literally on his fucking knees BEGGING for the public to leave him alone. the backlash would be RELENTLESS and you know it. Probably would be. the same way it typically is for those who paint a whole group with the same brush but people, like you, are having a cow, There is no cow being had, none at all. I am simply saying what any psychology text book will point out - that change - can only come when the people committing that hurtful acts, the hurtful thoughts do the changing and that can only happen when they come to realize that change is necessary and that they, and the world, would benefit from their change and growth. Does that happen over night? Obviously not, but it does happen and has happened when someone who wants to change is shown something about themselves that they did not previously know or realize about themselves. Racial attitudes have changed over time in this country, whether you want to believe or accept it or not, and most of it has come when people are able to step into the shoes of someone else, see things from the POV of those that they victimize. To give Liam, or Denzel, or whomever, the benefit of the doubt (based on my understanding of all of Liam's statements regarding his story within the context that he share it affords people the opportunity to see the error of the things they do, the statements they make, not because someone else wants name call them for said statements. Often, the name calling only serves to make the name caller feel better, but the unintended results are that people are put on the defensive, shamed into silence which only makes change harder and less likely. The true racists/ other -ists in this world want people like Liam to keep his mouth shut more those who are criticizing him - assuming the point and context of his story is true - because such comments disarm and provide opportunities for people to see the error of their own ways much in the same way many people changed their POV about black people and racism because they saw first hand what their behavior and statements look like.  because liam is being criticized with "words" via those on social media?! lol. bro, i can't even.. your precious liam will be fine.. Again, it's not about Liam, it's about changing the behaviors of those who come after Liam he won't be effected by this because he's a privileged white male. if he didn't want to be criticized, he should have kept his arrogant words to himself. Again, you miss my point, it's not about the criticism, let the criticism rain down on Liam. It is more than understandable it's about  this dude really wants people to praise him for NOT killing an innocent black man.. AND there are actually people doing it, like YOU.. smh. I am not praising Liam, nor am I defending him. I am simply pointing out the opportunity that is availed to the rest of humanity in a moment such as this one. 

lol. you already knew you were going to get criticized for bringing up that black woman supposedly being raped. whenever people, like you, defend racists, they pull out ALL the stops. making up stories about imaginary black friends is always NUMBER 1 on the list.. simply put, i don't believe you. that story is fiction and you made it up on the fly because you thought it would fit well with your narrative. choose to believe what you'd like - though it seems your dismissal and disbelief are there to serve your narrative and point of view.  
no black woman that i know that has been abused/raped by a fellow black man have been afraid of other black men. Reread what I said - no mention of her being afraid of other black men, heck she has plenty of black friends, what I said what was that she has not been able to date another black man since. she might have trouble with intimacy and trusting future mates but she's not going to be automatically afraid of ALL black men. why would she? that type of stuff is not ingrained in us. even black women that date white dudes exclusively don't say stupid shit like that. REREAD what I said. so try again on the fake story, bro. I wish it were false, not because it fits your/mine/ or anyone's narrative, but because I [b]genuinely care about my friend's health and wellbeing, ...bro[/b]

i have tried hard to put myself in the shoes of people like you. Your statements overall and just above about the "fake" story suggests otherwise i see all these people who make excuses for racism What excuses are being made about the dude's racism? and i try my hardest to relate and see through their eyes. I encourage you to try harder, but perhaps without the emotion and more from an effort of objectivity  but, when i delve deeper, there never seems to be a valid reason other than they must get some sort of "high" off defending evil. his words were reprehensible and he deserves the criticism. period. end of story. You know nothing about me. Though I am here if you would like to ask and not assume or project.  

there is no "tar and feather' crowd. just people sharing their opinions. I'll take that - "Tar and feather" was an unfortunate choice of words as it created room for people such as yourself to completely misread and misinterpret my thoughts.  just because you might not like what they have to say here, and elsewhere on the internet, doesn't make your false labels credible.  they have a right to their opinions just like you do. but, it's obvious that you can't respect their voices. do tell, how is it so obvious that I don't respect their voices? you claim that you don't want to condemn and dismiss but that's EXACTLY what you're doing to those criticizing liam's reckless words. where do I condemn and dismiss them? I only point out that such statements instigate defensiveness which only make it harder for self-reflection to occur also, name-calling is not allowed on this board so why are you suggesting such? Sellouts, uncle toms, apologists are all names that posts here have used to describe people who may not agree with their point of view perhaps you're trolling for attention in hopes of that? Smile No trolling here, as I did not condemn anyone for their sentiments - though I can see how you clearly see differently due my use of  "tar and feather" if anyone should be accused of name-calling, it's you for condemning people on the internet as a so-called "tar and feather crowd" for DARING to criticize a man that admitted to looking for a black man, to provoke, and KILL, for an ENTIRE WEEK.  how you can make excuses for that is beyond me.. but, hey, your opinion should count to, even if it does suck. Again, where do I condemn the critics save for the tar and feather term which was used as a shortcut to point out how such criticisms put people on a defensive and, thus, make it harder for them to see the opportunity that available to challenge their own thingking and point of view. There are no excuses made for the man's comments. any attempt to see otherwise is revisionist history.   
bro, i HAVE to give it to you.. that was a VERY interesting way to answer a reply. lol. 

open-minded people don't defend racists. are you claiming to be "open-minded' after your defense of liam? dude, they should have read your post on good morning america. i'm sure he would have appreciated it a lot. that's how far up his ass you are. you should be his publicist. lol

sigh.. are we really going the "psychology" route? look, this isn't rocket science. liam said some fucked up, racist shit. you defended him. what else is there to say? i don't respect anyone who would do that. because, for one thing, if any black movie star were to confess like liam did, you know damn well that all hell would break loose. the fact that you don't understand that, means you're just like the others that i put in the "avoid at all costs" category of life. there is no talking to people like you because you lack empathy for others. you make stupid excuses for behavior that you KNOW that you would never tolerate from a black person. i'm not fooled by your "we are the world" shit. 

again, i don't believe one word you said about your imaginary black friend. you made it up plain and simple. if there were any doubts, your latest reply to me further confirmed my skepticism. thanks for that Smile 
let's leave that alone because rape is a very serious thing. you bringing that up was already a pretty LOW thing for you to do anyway. sharing someone's personal pain to prove some stupid point in defense of a mediocre actor's racism, is pretty FUCKED UP.  thankfully, it was pretty obvious that the story wasn't true though. because i'd hate to be her and have a "friend" like you. smh. 

how can anyone misinterpret "tar and feather"? LOL! you said what you said, bro. why am i the bad guy for pointing that out? there was no "misreading" or "misinterpreting". also, you clearly said that you prefer not to "condemn" others. describing people who might say things that you don't like as a apart of some "tar and feather crowd", sure sounds like condemning to me. so it looks like i uncovered some hypocrisy on your part and now you're backtracking. don't try to shift blame to me for you supposedly have a bad choice of words! what the hell?! but what did i expect from someone who defends racism though. you do realize that many hardcore racists actually blame their victims for making them HATE, don't you? smh.

i tried to hurry this along and make this as short as possible but it's still too much. i really didn't want to waste that much time further talking about this with you. i said what i said. you said what you said.. let's just leave it at that. i have no interest in going back and forth with you. our thought processes don't mesh well together. it happens. we don't all have to agree with each other. we express our opinons and move on. that's it.

Pretty good, bro - make your case, support your arguments in conjecture, tell me what I am thinking, what I believe, what I've made up and declare your case made - once more conversation over. 

Well done. 

There are those who will read my comments the way they are written (flaws and all) and those who will read them the way that you read them. Such is life. 

Happy Trails
look, bro. i spared us both from wasting each other's time. i'm no longer interested in what you have to say on this topic.
at the end of your initial post, you invited the so-called "tar and feather crowd" to come for you which is a clear example of you TROLLING for attention. i, as the national spokesman, decided to step forward and accommodate you. i was bored and had time on my hands, so why not.. LOL! once i pointed out to you that your own words were a direct contradiction, you didn't seem to like that very much... and you actually tried to blame me for YOUR words! i mean, you can't make this shit up. LMAO! hilarious.. you gotta love people who get on their high horses saying stuff like "i don't like to condemn others" then in the next paragraph, they proceed to CONDEMN OTHERS. LMAO! let it go, bro. 

have a good one. Smile
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